S2, Ep. 5 - Joan Krush, NACADA Executive Office

Season 2 goes out on a high note as Emerging Voices welcomes Joan Krush from the NACADA Executive Office for an insightful and delightfully lively conversation about leadership, mentorship, and finding your place in the association. From Joan’s journey through admissions, advising, and higher education leadership to her passion for helping members grow into both “little l” and “big L” leaders, this episode is packed with encouragement and a behind-the-scenes look at the Emerging Leaders Program. Add in a wild bobcat story, a few laughs, and plenty of NACADA love, and you’ve got the perfect season finale. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Well, hello and welcome back to the Emerging Voices Podcast. This is Matt Markin, and as always, I am with...

Bri Harvie  
I'm Bri Harvie.

Matt Markin  
And I was about to laugh because Bri put in the chat, I can hear the music this time, because in our last interview, he was interviewing Allison, and could not hear the music at all.

Bri Harvie  
So there was a really fun awkward silence when they were just waiting for me to kick the podcast off, and I was still waiting for the intro music. And it was, you know, it was very, very on brand for Bri running a podcast by herself.

Matt Markin  
Hey, it all still worked out, which is great. Oh my gosh, this is the last episode of season two of emerging voices, I know, but I'm so excited.

Bri Harvie  
I'm so excited to get to talk to Joan Krush.

Matt Markin  
Before we talk to Joan, though, you gotta tell everyone about the bobcat story.

Bri Harvie  
Oh, my God, this was wild. Okay, so I live in Alberta, in Canada, and this is going to do nothing for the Canadian stereotypes of having like polar bears in your backyard, but I promise this is unusual where I live. I was hanging out at home yesterday, sitting on the couch, not feeling great, so like barely conscious, and I look out the window into our backyard, and there was a bobcat sitting on our deck, and so I sat up right away, and it just meandered through our yard and jumped onto the fence and left. And my husband pointed out, it's probably because I have squirrels in my backyard that I feed, and I house, and I just left my little squirrel friends, and 100% the spot cat was coming from my school friends. So I really hope they all made it through the day.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, and of course, Bri said earlier when, before we recorded that I don't have squirrels as pets, but I bought houses for them.

Bri Harvie  
Okay, maybe I do, but they're don't like it. I don't have names.

Matt Markin  
Not yet. 

Bri Harvie  
The ones who make it through the bobcat.

Matt Markin  
Fingers crossed for them. Thoughts and prayers.

Bri Harvie  
Prayers for brief squirrels.

Matt Markin  
Well, on that, you know to kind of recap it. This is your first time listening to this podcast. Welcome the first season we interviewed the Emerging Leaders of the 2024 to 2026 NACADA Emerging Leaders Program cohort. Season two, we've interviewed the mentors of that same cohort. We thought we got to end on a really, really high note. We've had these great interviews. Who else can we interview? And we thought, hey, it's got to be Joan Krush. Joan, welcome.

Joan Krush  
Oh, thanks. What a really great intro. Thanks. Appreciate that. It's been fun, so fun to listen to our emerging leaders and our mentors. It's been really great. I love it. I can't help but just smile.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, and for listeners, you'll find out through this interview. Like, just how amazing, how cool Joan is. Loves her job, loves NACADA, loves the members, but also super humble. Because when Bri and I asked Joan like, Hey, can you come on and be a guest on the podcast? Joan was like, Who me? There's so many other people you could ask. And starts name dropping all these individuals that she felt should be on it. And we're like, they're all great, but Joan, you have to be on.

Joan Krush  
Very sweet, you guys. That's You're so sweet. Thank you.

Bri Harvie  
She gets the best hugs. I love, Joan, hugs.

Joan Krush  
Oh, thanks. You guys, sending you. Send you a virtual hug right now. Can you feel it? Bring it in. Bring it in.

Matt Markin  
So, Joan, I know two years ago you were on this amazing podcast called Adventures and advising and interview you. And for those that may not have listened to that episode, How dare you go back and listen to it. But I felt like we got to start off with you. Got to tell us about your higher ed journey. 

Joan Krush  
Oh, gosh, I'll try to be brief. It's It's been a while I have been in higher education for 30 years, I was a first generation transfer student. I am from the Midwest, which you might hear from the North Country, not quite far north. But I did some my undergrad and communications, and I was a tour guide and an orientation leader and hosted students when they visited campus, when I was an undergrad, and I just loved everything about the college environment and campus environment, the electricity, excitement and transformation that happens for students and so. I knew that I wanted to remain in higher education, and so I worked in admissions and recruitment for a number of years, and then completed a master's in the olden times called Student Development in post secondary education. So that was a long before Educational Administration programs came about. But at any rate, spent some time at small private institutions and large land grant public institutions in admissions and recruitment, and then moved into academic advising. And spent about 12 years on campuses as academic advisor, and then had an opportunity to move to Manhattan, Kansas, home of NACADA, the global community for academic advising, and sort of forced my way here into the executive office, did some work with the region review, and then had an opportunity to start with a position for member engagement and leadership development, and that's What I currently do now here at the NACADA Executive Office.

Matt Markin  
Manhattan, Kansas, a little apple. Little Apple. 

Bri Harvie  
I have to tell you that caused me so much confusion when I was first starting about to learn about Nakata. And they were like, it's in Manhattan, and then they would talk about Kansas. And I was like, you guys know Manhattan's in a different state, right? And they look at me like they're not cute. You're Canadian, but I love and I I really find your journey particularly interesting because, I mean, you did a lot of the things that a lot of us have done. You started as an engaged student, you moved into admissions and recruitment like you. You followed a very similar path to, I think, a lot of folks that end up in academic advising, and then, just like giant left turn into the NACADA executive office and administration of advising on a global level. What made you think that that was okay? I'd say the words that were going to come out were that was a good idea. You could do that actually. That was a good idea, that that was the next step for you. Why administration, as opposed to just kind of continuing on the path of advising leadership?

Joan Krush  
Now, that's a great question. I think a lot of it has to do with fit, but that's always been the case for me. Like working with recruiting students and with in academic advising, you're trying to help with the fit. It's belonging. It's trying to figure out where your place is. And I was quite involved in my region when I was a Nakata member, like I've been in the kind of member for 20 years. What? And so a new thought. I knew a lot about Nakata and its structure and leadership opportunities, and I didn't really, I didn't really know as much as I thought it was overconfident in my knowledge base, but working with members is one of my greatest joys. It's individualized and it's encouraging and nurturing, and that's just what I love to do. It's what I love to do with students as an academic advisor. And it's a lot of those same sort of feelings and engagement that I find that's really rewarding here in the executive office. It's a great it's a great opportunity for me to reach out to new members, but also to have conversations with members who've been a part of the Association for a while, and then start to see themselves in a potential leadership position. And so how did I get here? That's sort of like, Why did I think this is a good idea? Like, it just sounded like a lot of fun and something that I could do, and I think I can use some of those transferable skills, as we talked about in my role here that I used as an academic advisor.

Matt Markin  
Oh, that's so nice to hear now, I would think, like, if you could go back and give your early career Joan, like one piece of advice about leadership. Would you tell younger Joan, anything?

Joan Krush  
Hmm, well, I think, yeah. I like, just go for it. Just do it. I think we, I was had that imposter syndrome, right? Like, I don't know. Can I do this? Can you be chair for a conference, a regional conference? Can you be on a the annual conference planning committee? Like, those are things that I was kind of like, I don't know, but what I found was the support network is here, and you're surrounded by people who want you to do well, and that's a great and powerful thing, right? If we can help build each other up, we all are better for it. And. And this is an association that does that. And so that's pretty powerful. You can't manufacture that. That comes from folks who are committed to their work, who are enthusiastic about what they do, and they just want to improve and be better and do better for themselves and for others, and so I think this is an association that does that. So I would have told my younger self to just don't sweat it so much and just go ahead and just go for it, and you can do it. And this is a place that will give you the foundation you need and the support that you need to be successful.

Bri Harvie  
Forget Nike. Joan told me you just do it. Careful. Care for it? So in your role right now, tell us. Tell us your favorite part. Like, what is it exactly? What is your day to day look like? What is a day in the life of Joan?

Joan Krush  
Well, it sounds exciting, as you might think. It Miss Bri but no, it is. I have a few things so I have the privilege of liaisoning to a few of our leadership groups. So I liaison to the membership recruitment and retention committee as well as the NACADA sustainable Leadership Committee, both of those groups very committed to what can we do for our members? How can we help them feel engaged with the association. How can we help build their personal professional development and how can we just create that environment where we are developing leaders, and I also liaison to the Emerging Leaders Program Advisory Board. And so that is leads to my ability, or my opportunity to work with coordinating the Emerging Leaders Program. And so we do a lot of things. We talk a lot about, what is leadership? What are the types of leadership? How can we help members see where their leadership opportunities are, whether it's running for a position or being nominated for a position, or if it's something that is more comfortable for them, that's not quite as a title, but more of a I want to give back. It would be, perhaps in the form of being a proposal reader or reading Award nominations that is so critical to what we do in recognizing the work that academic advisors do, that the environment that administrator set up so that our advisors can be successful and those all need peer review, and so those are ways that we want to engage and encourage our members to be a part of the association that they belong to, because it, in the end, benefits them.

Matt Markin  
So a lot of meetings, a lot of advocacy, a lot of planning, lot of problem solving. So every day is an adventure for you.

Joan Krush  
Joan, it is, and that's the way, you know, that's the way I like it. I It's the variety. Is what keeps me coming back, because you just don't know what you're gonna get. But, you know, I, I do not suffer boredom, which is great, and so that is what keeps me going. If it's the sometimes it's the individual message from a member that just says, I need help with us, or it's someone submits a I want to get involved in the association, and we reply to that with some suggestions or ideas or addressing specific questions, or it's I need to be able to access information on a particular topic or student group. How do I do that? And so it's just those points of engagement that color my day. In addition to different meetings, I have quite a few subcommittees that are working on some leadership development modules and such and so, yeah, we've got some day to day tasks, but also some fun things when I hear from members individually.

Matt Markin  
I guess going along with that, you know, with leadership, because NACADA looks at leadership very like it's a very general kind of definition of leadership, because I think some people think like NACADA president or want to be on the board, and you've just named so many other areas. Why do you think some some people still have kind of these misconceptions about like that? There's all these different pathways to all these other areas of leadership.

Joan Krush  
Yeah, I like to call that little L leadership and big L leadership. And I think it's it has to be what you're most comfortable with, right as we all know, personalities are different. Folks are maybe not a fan of the spotlight, and others are as far. Spotlight. I mean, like going through the steps for a nomination for a leadership position, to be elected into chair position, for perhaps an advisory board or a committee, or an advising community or a region position, and so and other folks just they want to do something, but they want it to be maybe something that doesn't take up as much time. It's time commitment. I think that's a big factor, as our advisors are all very busy, and this is a volunteer organization. Those are all factors that that come into play. But I think our challenge is, how do we let members know what those leadership opportunities are, whether it's little leadership or big leadership, capital L or lowercase L leadership opportunities, and so it's communicating with our members at the place and space that works best for them, and we need leadership at all levels. And so I think it's important for our members to know that, because it helps them think about then, what is my commitment? What do I What time do I have to contribute back to the association, and what form could that look like? Can it be from my desk? Because that's more comfortable for me. Great, is it I'm a chair of a committee or have a more intricate role in decision making and the work of the association? Great, we need folks in all of those areas.

Bri Harvie  
It's amazing. And I think it's one of the things that we hear a lot doing the podcast, is there's this kind of undercurrent of I didn't think I could till I did, and I feel like that's the case with a lot of the leadership opportunities that you're talking about, whether it is from your desk or putting on a sequin jacket at an annual conference and jazz hands in front of the group, right? Like it is, once you take that first step, you just see how easy it is to become a small l or a big L leader in NACADA, like you said, it's a volunteer organization, right? Like it doesn't work without member engagement taking that one step further, thinking about kind of the next couple of years for NACADA, what do you see as being the next exciting things that are happening that people might be able to get involved in that are new?

Joan Krush  
Oh yeah, gosh. Well, that's a good one. I think there are a few I can think of right away, exciting things we, as we continue to grow and continue to serve our members. I think it's really important as an association to pause. You know, take to take a pause. Take a minute to think about is the current structure or is the current thing we're doing the best for our members, and I think we've seen examples of that, in particular with the Emerging Leaders Program and 2023 we we took a pause and said, Let's look at the program. Let's talk to our former mentors and our former emerging leaders, and ask them, what worked well structurally, what can we support? How can we continue the mission of the Emerging Leaders Program while helping our members be built up into a leadership position within the association? That's an example. I think also coming then is the restructure conversation. So the conversations with the advising communities and the restructure in the somatic areas, the development of affinity groups, with a review of the administrative division and talking about, what are we doing right now? What's working? Well, what needs improvement? Because I think everything needs to be improved, right? Everything can be improved. You're never have a perfect system. You never have a perfect setup. And I think if you're not taking a moment to pause to say, is this working? What's working? Well, how can we do better? Then you sacrifice some forward progress. And I think while Change is hard for everyone, change is important if we're not changing and there's a bigger problem, and so I think it's exciting to have some restructuring that's happening within the association, as well as a focus on scholarship and a greater focus on defining more definitions to academic advising, so that it elevates the profession and. We're an association that elevates the profession, and we strive to do that, and want to continue to do that into the future. And so those types of changes and conversations need to happen, and they're important. They're important to our growth as Association. They're important for our members so that they're getting the most out of their membership within the association. 

Matt Markin  
I think that's just even great life advice in general. Digital like, if I'm still the same person I am now that I was then, then something went wrong.

Joan Krush  
Right on. Dude agreed, totally.

Matt Markin  
You were mentioning with the Emerging Leaders Program, and kind of the the change and talking to the members, and I know there was like a pause at one point, and it got revamped. Can you kind of describe, like, the arc of where emerging leaders was and then what it is today?

Joan Krush  
Yeah, sure. The I'll tell you what has stayed the same is we strive to find leadership within the association. We, we were the Emerging Leaders Program was developed by the at the time the Diversity Committee, which is now the Inclusion and Engagement Committee, but the goal was to develop diverse leaders for the association, and that is still our main focus. The program is a mentoring program. Its structure is typically a two year sort of commitment. We have in person and virtual opportunities to meet and to learn about different topics, things about the region or the administrative division, or just different structures within the association, publishing those are all ways that we are trying to build up our leadership within the association Emerging Leaders Program did have a pairing model where we paired an emerging leader with a mentor, someone who our mentors tend to be folks who are have been involved in leadership or were at one time and have the capacity to guide an emerging leader through a leadership discernment, I would say, an opportunity to think about where, where are my goals, personally, professionally, how can I get there? What are some ways for me to do that, and having conversations, real conversations about that, identifying goals so it's still goal based in that respect, one of the larger changes is we've moved from the pairing model to more of a group or pod model, as we are calling it, where we are putting together multiple emerging leaders with multiple mentors. It allows for, perhaps the presence of greater dynamics within the group and personality, I guess, more representation, if you will. And I think it gives our mentors an opportunity to talk about what what their strengths are, and where their strengths lie, and helps us fill in to where those maybe aren't as strong in one area for one mentor, but are stronger for another mentor in another area. And so it helps us sort of have a greater reach as it relates to networking and access to mentoring for our emerging leaders. What else can I say about that? I'm having a blank here moment. I don't know if I did a really good job of explaining.

Bri Harvie  
Yeah, no. 100% I was waiting to see if there was more to the arc, but I think that arc nicely highlights to how like this idea of assessment at Nakata and constantly, like, what can we be doing better? Like, you talked about the administrative division and the AC division that just went through their restructure and then the ELP. Like, I think it all ties into that idea of nothing, no system, no program, no committee, no anything is ever going to be perfect. And it's not evaluative. It is not you are doing a bad job. It is, what can we do better as a group? And I think that that is something maybe potentially uniquely positive about NACADA, and that it is always about, how can we make this better? How can we improve? And even if not all the improvements land the way that we meant them to it's like, great. What we learned, can we try again? And that is, I think, a strength of a volunteer organization is that nobody is involved because they're being paid right? Like we're all here because we care about the work, and if we care about the work, we're going to be willing to put the work in. And so I think it's. It's great to see that that same attitude kind of pervasive throughout Nakata, and then great to have it supported by the handful of staff that are at the executive office right, that aren't trying to, like, shoot the volunteers ideas down. It is very collaborative. I want to poke your brain a little bit with the assessment piece, though, because you've talked about the different changes and kind of how they've come about. But what about that process? Do you think NACADA does really, really well? Like, what is it that makes it work? Because we do it all the time, and most of the time it does work.

Joan Krush  
Well, I think the strength becomes listening to our members, right? It's it's listening sessions, but prior to that, it's a ad hoc Task Force, if you will. That puts the group of smart leaders in the same space to talk candidly about what's working what's not working, and it allows for that exchange of information. Because I think, I think, personally, I believe best idea wins. And I think NACADA kind of has that same type of philosophy in that we want to create the strongest program, or strongest set of strategic goals, or whatever it is. We want it to be we strong. We want it to be strong so it serves our members. So our members are going to be the first folks that we want to turn to to say, let's sit and talk about how this is currently structured. Where are the opportunities, where are the strengths? And how can we move this forward and make it stronger. And I think that's powerful, right? The power is in the people within the association. And everyone knows, if you can get us a group of really smart folks in the room to talk candidly about how things are going and where they could go, that can help create the really, a really strong program that then we reach out to our members and next phase to talk about, just have listening sessions. Talk about, these are the changes that we're we're looking to do. What are your thoughts? And constantly getting that feedback from our members helps us know whether we're on the right track, or what are we missing, perhaps, and can help strengthen before we roll out with whatever the changes are, or whatever that new thing might be, or whatever that new change might look like.

Matt Markin  
Now, of course, you know this podcast. We're focusing on the Emerging Leaders Program. You're talking about the Emerging Leaders Program, from the nakot executive office standpoint, from like, a program coordinator, some members might get confused, because there's this. There's also the regions have their mentor programs. Can you talk about like, is it the same thing? Are there differences?

Joan Krush  
Great question. No, thanks. I think this goes back to what we talked about earlier, where there are different types of feelings our members have about where they want their professional development to be right. And I think first of all, you've got a group who says, I I'm looking to be mentored, or be a mentor. What does that look like? Is it something that I can do on my campus? Is that something I can do in my area, region, if you will? And is that something that I can do within NACADA, as it is leadership positions? So a lot of that is personal reflection first of all, right? And honestly, it's one of the key questions that we ask in the application process, because we we want to, of course, be an association that provides mentoring opportunities for our members, right? Like the importance of mentoring just cannot be over emphasized, right? So then, rather than having just one program or one place where that emphasis is, I think when we expand out and say, okay, so mentoring, informal, formal, mentoring within your region or area. So the regions currently have a structure where they have a mentoring program, great the Emerging Leaders Program, mentoring opportunity, and the scale is region specific, or the scale is NACADA specific? Like, and we want members to think about those who are looking for mentoring opportunities, to think about, where would that be for me? Where am I most comfortable? And where do I want? Where do I want my impact to be? What are my goals? And so I think even with the current structure, with having mentoring opportunities within the regions and mentoring through the Emerging Leaders Program, we still will need more mentoring, and what does that look like, but these are the programs that we currently have, and I'd love to grow the Emerging Leaders Program even larger scale, but you know, we have to be able to manage it as well, and so that that, of course, plays a part. But I think one thing that I've observed with the Emerging Leaders Program, because I haven't always been the coordinator, is that the emerging leaders are a passionate group. They are very, very passionate about mentoring. They want there to be many, many opportunities for our emerging leaders to reach out to members within the association. If you're interested in writing. Let me introduce you to this person. If you're interested in an advising community, a specific advising piece, let me introduce you. So like our emerging leaders are like the the best networkers, because they are building their network, but they are also expanding their network for others, for themselves, but then also for others. And one thing that I just love, love, love, love, love to watch is that the annual conference, when we bring in our very first, our new emerging leader class, and we sit down with our mentors, we have conversations about where, where are your interests, where are your strengths? What do you kind of think, and what do you kind of like? Oh, that's interesting. And our folks are making little notes, and then throughout the conference, it's, oh, I'd like to introduce you to this person, and then I want to introduce you to this person, and it just becomes this Nakada network, and it's beautiful and lovely, and it's exactly what it's supposed to do through this opportunity. And so I think that also happens on the region level for folks who are in Region mentoring programs. And that's again, powerful and important, and it's necessary for our members in their personal and professional development.

Bri Harvie  
I think that's, I mean, it's amazing, and I love that there's the different, like scaffolded opportunities for mentorship too. It doesn't have to be right to the association level. If you want to try at the region level, it might be a little bit less intimidating. And I think that's something, again, that I kind of does really well by giving opportunities kind of every level. I want to circle back to something you said early and tied into the conversation about the mentorship. You talked about how ELP initially came out of I remember what it was called, but the Diversity Committee, diversity,

Joan Krush  
inclusion, sounds like first diversity. So this is, yeah, so this is a growth of the association, right? Like, where is our emphasis? We started as a Diversity Committee. Now it's Inclusion and Engagement, right? So it's like, where are we emphasizing our focus, right? And then Emerging Leaders Program developed as through the Inclusion and Engagement Committee.

Bri Harvie  
And I think that's an important piece of ELP and some of the mentorship programs that I think sometimes doesn't get talked about enough that it is intentional in its vision, and it's a goal to create more diverse leadership within NACADA as well. And I think I come from a unique position in this, being the only Canadian on the board, being the only Canadian or on council. For a long time I was, or when I was in it, I was the only Canadian and ELP. Now this year, there's a few of us, but I think I would be, first of all, do you I have a question pop quiz Joan Krush because I don't know the answer. Do you know how many countries are in Nakata? How many member countries we have?

Joan Krush  
bout 32 I believe.

Bri Harvie  
You could have totally made a number up, and I would have been like, Good job. Good job, because I have no idea, but we'll go with 32 so if you look at this organization that has such a focus on diversity, there still really isn't that diversity in a lot of ways, at the leadership level, and I think part of that is just because of people not wanting to jump in, and that the first thing you do is run for president, right? Like it's it definitely has to be scaffolded. But I'd be curious to get your thoughts on what we could maybe do differently. I don't want to say better, because I don't think we're doing anything wrong right now, but maybe differently or a little bit. More intentionally to really increase some of that geographical diversity as well on some of our committees. 

Joan Krush  
Well, you would notice this, of course, that most of the meetings and such have moved to virtual right. So where you live, your geographical location, should not limit you being a participant in whatever it is, whether it's a committee or advisory board or advising community or the Emerging Leaders Program. So that's a barrier that we have intentionally tried to remove. The Emerging Leaders Program currently requires, when you're new to the program, to be at the first annual conference, so that we can have an in person orientation and get to meet folks. But beyond that, everything else that we do is virtually and so while I understand if you are not for North America, it would be difficult, right? That's a that's a commitment that has to be made, and part of the application process is also a supervisor support letter, because we recognize that as an emerging leader candidate, it would be really difficult for you to spring on your supervisor, once you were selected for the program that you are then now going to be a part of the program. So we've tried to eliminate some of those barriers. But, I mean, I recognize your your question. I'm not sure I have a this is the falls for it, other than to say we can make these sort of incremental changes so that we are removing barriers, perhaps one at a time, once we know what those are, so that we can expand the participation for folks outside of North America.

Bri Harvie  
No, I think that's I'm just gonna jump in and say. I didn't mean to like, catch you off guard and be like, pop quiz sucker.

Matt Markin  
I thought you were going with, like, the line from the Speed movie. I didn't say it. I know I was waiting for that last part.

Bri Harvie  
And given my proclivity for profanity, I think that would be a fair assumption to make, but I did it. I changed it to sucker. Yeah, I'm a hero, really. I think I didn't mean to just pop it on you, but I think you're raising good points about like we have made intentional barriers, and I think it's good for the membership to hear from the executive office too. Like, this is what we're trying to do. And like, hopefully through listening to these podcasts and just through their experiences, and I cut it, they understand that. Like, we're all people too. So if you have ideas, come and talk to us kind of thing, because it's like, I can't imagine somebody walking up to Joan and you'd be like, No, I don't want to hear your ideas. I don't goodbye, great.

Joan Krush  
No, it's always welcome, like many of my messages, when I reply is, we love hearing from our members. That's what we do. That's what we are designed to do, is to have you say, I wonder if you've ever considered doing this, because sometimes we talking about barriers. Sometimes they're unintentional. We just We didn't realize that that's a barrier for folks until we hear from them to say, like, well, you know, it'd really be great if you could arrange it this way. And so that helps us improve our offerings so that it makes it easier for our members to get them out. 

Joan Krush  
Yeah, always be learning. Always be growing. Absolutely, yep.

Matt Markin  
So it's a little bit time that we have left. You know you're talking about the application process. Now this episode, more than likely, is being aired a week before the deadline to apply. What does the application process look like for an emerging leader, and what does that look like for someone applying as a mentor?

Joan Krush  
Great question. Thanks. We try again. Speaking of barriers, we try not to have there be too many barriers, but we we have the questions that are asked on the application available on our website all year long. Once the application is live, then, of course, that's where you're answering those types of questions. But they're questions like, What are your goals for increasing your involvement in NACADA? There's a reason why you would be applying to the Emerging Leaders Program. Tell us what that is, and how can the Emerging Leaders Program help you reach those goals? Right? That's that's our design. That's what we want to do. How we want this leadership to be intentional, and so we want it also to be representative of our members of. The association. So it's again, where our goal is to develop diverse leaders. And so part of the application asks, What do you bring? Instead of saying, how do you, for lack of a better word, classify yourself, it's what do you bring. And that turns things around, right? It allows you, as an applicant to say, here's what I bring, here's what the program will do for me, and that's what we want to know in the application process. So that, I think was a huge change and a change for the better, if you ask me. But then we also are looking for folks who have already done a few things within the association, it helps us know that as applicants, they have an understanding of the structure of the association and are at least familiar with us, so they know where their leadership opportunities might take them, and recognize that it might change like you may indicate In your application that you want to publish a manuscript. Great. It may happen later, that it may your goals may change based upon what you learn about yourself and about your leadership, but that this is a place where you can safely do that. So we're always looking for emerging leaders, and then, of course, we're looking for mentors. So mentors are huge, huge, huge. They play a huge role in the success of the program. And so our mentors are folks who typically have been involved in leadership within the association. And so we're looking for folks to, for lack maybe of a better word is, you know, give back we our folks to have been in leadership positions. Once they've had their leadership opportunities, they are usually looking for, what can I do next? And the Emerging Leaders Program, being a mentor is a really great place to channel that energy and all that knowledge. For some folks, it sort of is a expands their comfort zone a little bit. It's a little bit different than leading a group. It's more so developing our next leader. But those are folks who are really committed to again, helping our emerging leaders create a network for themselves so that they can reach their goals and ultimately make their mark on NACADA.

Matt Markin  
Very cool. And I know Bri and I have talked at length off and on for like, the last couple years about like, imposter syndrome being a mentor, but I know we've loved it, and I just can't believe that we're almost to the end of the second year of the cohorts.

Joan Krush  
I didn't even want to say it out loud, because I'm in total denial. Yes, both of you have been amazing mentors, so examples of folks who are giving back to the association and giving back to the Emerging Leaders Program, and I hope that it's been everything you thought it would be, because I would like to ask you, what are two words that you would use to describe your Emerging Leader mentoring experience?

Bri Harvie  
Listen, Joan. This is not how podcasts work. We ask questions.

Matt Markin  
I have to think, Matt, you go first one word that comes to mind, I would say, when I first started in the program was daunting, and I think that kind of goes back to the imposter syndrome part, you know, because I've done a lot of stuff leadership wise in Nakata, but at my institution, I'm not considered like a leader, because I never wanted to go into administration. So it was like, am I going to connect or the Emerging Leader is going to get? Am I going to be able to give them anything? And I guess my other word would be like relieved towards the end and realize, like we all have something to give but a third word would be phenomenal. It's been a great experience.

Bri Harvie  
I'm going to steal one of Matt's because I couldn't think of a word for daunting. But I 100% agree, and I think it's I think it's important to call it out that even those of us who have been selected and are super involved in Nakata still feel some of that, like, what do I have to offer? And then as soon as you start, you're like, oh, actually, a few things. And it's great. And I, I mean, I've met with my mentees a few times now, and I every time we sit there and I'm like, What on earth could I teach you? You know, everything, but it's about the connections and the building the network and the opportunities. And I I feel better for that now, but I also feel like my other word I'm going to go with connected, because I've also made connections through being a mentor and like doing this podcast with Matt. And I mean, I say with Matt, I literally just show up and be off in a corner. Matt does all the production and books it and everything. But doing this with Matt has been great, and getting to know all of the other all of the mentees and the mentors, has been great, and I feel more connected to the association because of it. Even though I'm supposed to be I'm doing air quotes for those just listening to be the one making the connections. I also made connections, right? So I see the value in that as well.

Joan Krush  
Thank you. I love that. Thank you both for saying yes. That's what we need. I think that's what this association is about too. Is just say yes, and we'll support you and figure it out from there. 

Matt Markin  
Those connections turn to friendships. Like, you know, like doing this podcast with Bree has been great, like, people don't know, like we really don't necessarily plan for this, like we know who the guest is. But I think Bri and I have gotten to know each other and know how each other works. And might be thinking that we just kind of go with the flow, and it has all worked out for two seasons

Joan Krush  
Keeping it real. You guys.

Matt Markin  
The last question Joan, who are your mentors? She tried to throw it on us with these like, yes, what are two words? In my mind is just goes blank. You guys.

Joan Krush  
Quiz sucker, yeah, you got me, you got me. Are you happy? You got me? Golly. I have quite a few. Many of them have been folks NACADA, folks that I have worked with in past, chairs of committees and advisory boards, are folks that I really stay connected to, because now they're in my network, right? And they're the folks who I bounce ideas off of, or just say, like, hey, is this crazy? And they'll tell me honestly whether it is crazy or not. And then I do rely on my colleagues here in the executive office, because I said this before I'll say it again. They tire of me saying things like, Well, when I was a member of the association, they're all just like, Oh, here she goes again. But it's I have the freedom to express that perspective, but then also want to hear, okay, so how can we make this work, or make this happen? Or what would that entail? Or I need your help, so we're working together in that collaborative relationship. So a lot of folks you know being a member of the Association for a few years, you develop mentors, and are hopefully a mentor to others, and that's that's what it's all about. 

Matt Markin  
On that note, such a positive note, it's time to end Season Two of the podcast.

Bri Harvie  
I will say, going to add one more line that if anybody ever wants to get a chance to hear from Joan, all you have to do is wait for your membership to be almost lapsing, because I have so many emails being like, Girl, your membership is going to expire in two days. So it's a great way to get to hear from Joan.

Joan Krush  
I say for you to miss out

Matt Markin  
When I get those emails like I'm reading it, like I'm hearing Joan's voice as I'm reading the email, and it's like, it's about to expire, but everything's like a happy face as well, right? It's just like, right?

Bri Harvie  
Come on man, renew your membership.

Matt Markin  
Yes, absolutely don't. Maybe send another email.

Bri Harvie  
I still have like 36 hours so I believe in you, right?

Joan Krush  
No, everywhere is a short one. Yes, no. Thank you so much for being on you guys. That was a real treat. I love you guys. Thanks so much.