S2, Ep. 4 - Allison Ewing-Cooper, The University of Arizona

In this episode of Emerging Voices, Bri Harvie chats with Dr. Allison Ewing-Cooper, Director of Academic Advising for Social and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Arizona, for a lively conversation about how great advisors are part guide, part coach, and part puzzle-solver. Allison shares her unexpected path into advising, how human development theory shapes her work with students and staff, and why asking the “silly questions” might be one of the smartest things we can do. From mentoring emerging leaders to reflecting on NACADA, leadership, and the art of letting students make their own choices, this episode is packed with wisdom and plenty of moments that will have advisors nodding along. 

*Emerging Voices is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Bri Harvie  
Hello, hello, hello, friends. Welcome to Emerging Voices an Emerging Leaders podcast about NACADA's Emerging Leaders Program where we talk with participants in our 2024 to 2026, class of emerging leaders. I am Bri Harvie from the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology. I'm flying solo today. Usually we have my good friend Matt Markin with us, but he is not joining me on this one. So you just get me, and I have the distinct pleasure of getting to chat with Allison Ewing-Cooper today. Allison, how's it going? 

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Good? How are you? 

Bri Harvie  
Oh, I'm so good. How's your January? 

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Oh, it's pretty good. We it was up until recently, about 70 something degrees in Arizona.

Bri Harvie  
So I don't know what that means. Is that, like, balmy? Is that cold? 

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Sunny and warm? Oh, yeah, Fahrenheit, yes.

Bri Harvie  
It's nice. That's fine. Usually, I can kind of guess 70s. I get lost. Really nice. Yes. Well, before we jump into your questions, I'm going to read a short bio about you, and then we'll just kick off the conversation. So Allison Ewing Cooper is the director of academic advising for social and behavioral sciences. She has been advising at the University of Arizona since 2006 and loves watching students grow, offering them guidance along their academic journeys, and seeing them graduate. Originally from San Diego, California, Allison earned her BA in human development from California State University Long Beach, and her PhD in Family Studies and human development from University of Arizona. Go Cats. That's awesome. I think this is, I mean, I feel like I've known you for a long time now, but I still learn something about you every time I didn't know you're from California originally. This is so good, I'm going to steal Matt's first question. So Matt always asks, What's your origin story? How did you get started in advising?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Oh, that's great story. So I, I Sorry, I'm from California, and I didn't wasn't sure. When I was an undergrad, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do after grad. After undergrad, one of my professors told me that I should go to grad school and get a PhD. And so I was like, Okay, that sounds fine, sure. Like, I don't know, Sure, that sounds like a thing to do after graduate, right? Because I didn't want to have a job yet. So that's how I became a PhD program, which leads to how I got into advising. So I went to the University of Arizona, which is where I still work for my PhD program, and then in I had a grad assistantship. And then there in my department Family Studies and human development, there was one grad assistant opening that was as an advisor that helped our full time advisor work with the undergrads, and that became open my third year, and I was recommended by my mentor, my dissertation advisor. She was like, Oh, you really like students. Why don't you do this? And I was like, oh, that sounds fun. Like another way to work with students. And I just remember when I first started advising, I couldn't believe this was a job. I was like, people get paid to, like, advise. I get to just work with students. I don't have to grade them, because, again, at this time, I think I'm going to be a professor. And so I really liked working with students. But I was like, I don't have to grade them, right? They don't have to complain about their grades. But like, I just get to, like, know them and help them and like, help them figure out where they want to be. As people had helped me again, I ended up where I was because I had mentors who helped me along the way, and my mentors were right when they're like, oh, you should go to grad school because I didn't know what I want to do. It turned out they were right. And I just thought this was an amazing job. I was like, I can't believe people do this and get paid for this. And so I continued to be an assistant, until I graduated. And I graduated into 2009 which was a terrible year to find a job. And so my Department hired me on to be the it was called the coordinator of undergraduate programs, but I was their adviser, basically a full time adviser. Now they finally got a full time adviser, not a grad student, and it did a bunch of other things for them. And I never left advising. So I never became professor. I also like say I never left Arizona because I got married and I am here in Tucson, and it was the best decisions I ever made in my life. One, to marry my husband, two, to get going to advising me to work at the University of Arizona. It's all a combination of the best decisions I'd ever made in my life. And I really think a lot of people do sort of stumble into advising, and once you start it, you just realize what a wonderful, amazing profession it is. And then, you know, you find everything. You find a cotta you find friends, you find all these other things that go along with it that I didn't even realize there was at first. Just thought, you know, of course, telling students what classes to take, and there's so much more. And so I'm so excited and grateful that I was able to get the opportunity to have that grad assistantship.

Bri Harvie  
It's yeah, and, I mean, it's wild hearing, as we've been doing this first the season with the mentor mentees, and now this second season with the mentors, hearing how everybody landed advising, because right? No, six year old girl wakes up in the morning and is like, I want to be an academic advisor when I grow up. So it's wild hearing how everybody gets into it. I think in particular, I find yours really interesting because you you identified already that you liked working with students through your PhD program, but hadn't necessarily made that connection to like a student services type role. So thinking back to when you're starting your PhD, and you're studying human development, Family Studies, things like that, and you're moving into advising, how did you take what you were working on in your dissertation, in your thesis, and apply it to your advising practice?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, it just totally made sense. And looking back at I like, I joke with my friends that I think I was always doomed, slash destined, to be an advisor, because when I was an undergrad, and the Schedule of Classes came out, and it was a book, you know, it was back. I was the days when you had a book, and all of you remember that I would take the book, I take all my friends, and I would write out their schedules, right? And I was like, here, this is what you're taking. This is what you're taking. You're taking. I just should have known I was destined to be an academic advisor, because I loved everything about that book, and I loved everything about making schedules, and I loved everything about people. Sorry, to go back to why I picked human development was because I just love people, and I'm so fascinated on how they end up, where they do, and why they make the decisions that they do, and how they develop over time. And so I knew for sure I wanted to work with people, and I liked university, so I thought Professor kind of made sense. And like you said, Bree, I just I had no idea, even though I was at a university, the multitude of jobs they're at a university that are not professor, right? It's not the the only job, clearly. And so I didn't even realize all the other jobs one might be able to have. And so in my PhD, I was I studied children was my so I wasn't even studying college age students. I focused on child development. Was my age period, but still learning the developmental stages of human beings was fascinating to start working with this population that we often think of it being like emerging adulthood, or young adults, or obviously they're students of all ages, but more looking at them in this population, and then applying what I'd also thinking about what I'd applied and the theories that I was learning in my human development classes, and how that applies to advising. It was, it was a natural fit, because it was also just taking everything that you learn about developmental advising. We even call a theory around that, which is meeting people where they are seeing what they need, figuring out where they are in their their life course, and then matching their needs. So i That's why I'd like to say to everyone, I was just, I think I was born advisor. I just did not really realize that was a job until I was in graduate school, and it was the perfect sort of mix of all my interests, because I really did want to be a teacher. I first wanted to be an elementary school teacher, so I first, I always wanted to be a teacher, and advising is teaching. I still do feel like you, and I have been able to teach actually a lot because I worked at university, so I have actually been able to teach a fair amount at a university, although I'm an administrative job now, but advising is teaching, and now I lead a team, and that's teaching too. So I feel like it was, it was always sort of meant to be my perfect job, because it was the combination of so many things that I was interested in.

Bri Harvie  
Oh, I love that. That's so great. And I also love the image I have of like, 18 year old Allison and her like catalog book and like color coding it for her friends, because I was also that kid. So how I didn't know that this was a job is beyond me also. But back in back for the kids listening back in the day, you had, like a phone book of classes, and it was, was a wild ride. We had to register. When I first went to university, registered over the phone, so you put in all of your, like, course numbers, and if you got one wrong, they would be like, there's an error. Goodbye and hang up on you, and you had to start over. And I just had this vision of, like, 18 year old cry being like, I can't get into my classes. And I should have known, because I figured it out. I should have known advising them down the road for me. So I think, yeah, I think everybody has their different journeys into advising, but there's, there's little, little hints throughout our lives. And yeah, I'll always picture Alison now giving her schedules to her friends. And yes, color code everything. Oh, obviously, yes, 100% they have to be color coded. No, I'm totally with you, going back to what you're talking about, developmental theories and development theories and developmental advising and all that fun stuff that we talk about fairly regularly in professional development in our world, I'm curious with your specific background thinking about your developmental theories, you talked a bit about how you apply them to advising. I would love. Love to hear more about how you apply them, or how they show up, even unintentionally, in managing your team, and how it's different or the same than when you were applying them with your advising students.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, I think there's a principle that works in all working with any people, and that's the meeting them where they're at. There's a situational leadership theory, is one of my favorite leadership theories for managing a team, which is very much just basically saying, you meet people with you give people the sort of leadership that they need. So if a person is new, you're more hand holding, you might be more instructional, you might even be more intrusive, and then as they need less, you back up more. So it's also scaffolding. So going back to my favorite human development theorist, Vygotsky, providing them the scaffolding they need, and then removing it, which is very true for students too, obviously first years should need more help. That is fourth year, very different kind of help, but also just more of the prac guidance like this is how you look for classes versus a fourth year needing more just a general discussion about life, and less like how to how to find a particular course, the scheduled classes and managing a team is the same way people need different things from you. Some team members just need to know that I'm here and they come to me, and I'm their supporter, and others want a lot more interaction and sort of state intervention, but that's quite the right word, but just working directly, more direct work, versus more behind the scenes.

Bri Harvie  
yeah, more of a hands on approach.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
And I think that that really applies when you think about and that also changes, not just over time, but through the person and what they might be working on. Because we were very I work for a very large college. I have a team of 23 they we are centralized, as in, we all report to the dean office, but decentralized, as in, they're all in their departments, and so they're not all like we're not all in the same building, and we don't, I don't see most of them every day. And so it's, it's a lot of relying on sort of reaching out to each other, proactive reach out, outreaches for me, for the people I feel I need it, and then the people that I know will always come to me when they need it, but I know that otherwise they're doing fine. And of course, wanting to give those people the freedom to to be because they're such experienced and knowledgeable advisors, to not be feeling like at any time I'm micromanaging them. And I think that's applies to students too, is that. I mean, we're a little more we want to check in a little bit more on our students, but there's obviously some students we are always gonna have to regularly check in on. We're probably always going to get needs emails to remind them of things to do, and others that are going to be, you know, they're so set up, and they're fine, and they're going to reach out to you, whatever they have a question and so, and you're going to, you're, you're going to be a different person around them, or same person, but different kind of give them different things that they need. I also know some students really like to just, just want me to tell them, you know, nice and easy, what they need to do, and others like to really have, you know, sort of deep conversations about things and and that's the same thing as just sort of meeting, meeting people at where they're at, and trying to provide for them what they need, so that they can be, in the case of the advising team, so that they can be the most successful advisors.

Bri Harvie  
That's awesome. Yeah, it's tricky finding that balance of meeting people where they're at, which is very important, like you said, but it's hard to have to flip back and forth between all the different versions of your brain that you have to use in those conversations, expanding on that a little bit, knowing that you have to be able to flip between all these different kinds of leaders or advisors that we have to be. What role do you think advising plays in all of those spaces and helping students build that that confidence be able to take some steps for themselves, the self self authorship and self advocacy and things like that for the student that needs you to, like, hold their hand and walk them through everything, versus the student that you only ever hear from to confirm what they've already done research into that needs less support but still growth.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, I think that an advisor important thing to remember is that we are. We are, you know, student. We're to advocate for students. We're support for them. We guide and mentor them, and that does look different for different people, and that's okay, and my hope would be for those students with a lot of hand holding, that we could move them to more independence over the four years. But I also recognize there are some there. I know their students, because I can think of them who they did become more independent, but they still were, you know, not, not perhaps, where other their peers were at the end of the fourth year. That's okay, because people also develop differently a lot from, you know, my whole human development degree is people develop into differently, surprise, and so they'll reach independent, someone. That's not, you know, my job to get them there. My job is really to make sure that they feel like there is a person there for them. Because I also find that that students sometimes are nervous to ask what questions we know is people are nervous to ask questions because they're nervous about being judged, and so they won't ask the question because they are too afraid. And I really strive hard in my practice, and this is actually with my team too. I'm going to go back to apply to team to be the person who you can ask me any question. And you really, if it was a question you had, it's not a silly question, right? And and I usually tell students, like, I'm really glad you asked me that, and like, let's talk about it. And even if it's something that we've already gone over that's okay, because they clearly wanted to go over it again. And so I want to be the person that they feel safe to ask that to so that they can get the information, because it's much. I think the cost is much worse of them not asking anyone and then potentially no messing up or missing something important, because they just couldn't ask anyone because they were too scared. And so I don't know if I've gone way off from what the question was, but I really think an advisor has and like going back to that you're not you're not their professor, right? You're not their parent, you're in a unique position where you can be a supporter and a safe human being that they can ask questions to. Always say that when students ask you and share, maybe share over share or ask you kind of funny questions, what I like to say to my co workers, as I said, this shows they trust you because they thought you were a trusted adult, that they could ask this maybe slightly strange question to and that you are a safe place. And that's what we want, is really to have our students trust us, because, and even if you're like, This is not really an advising question, it's still that you created a safe space for them to ask that question of you, and therefore, hopefully down the line, if they do have another question, advising, whatever you know, advising, career, whatever sort of question, they'll be Like, Oh yeah, I remember this person being a person who helped me in the past. And I am going to go back and I'm going to ask them this maybe slightly awkward question, but I'm a senior, and I'm still so sort of nervous, because I'm not even sure, you know what, what I was a career fair or something, you know, and I feel like I should know that, and my advisor will be okay, because she's never, you know, judged me in the past when I've asked these questions. And so I think that that's also just a really neat and unique thing about being an advisor, is that, you know, we we talk to students about all kinds of things, and that's also what I think is so fun, also about this job, is I have been an advisor for now, it's 20 years this month, and I still get asked questions I have never heard before. As I'm sure anybody else who's been advisor for a long time will testify that you just get asked questions you're like, that is a new one, and that is so fun, because if all I got asked was, like, what math Should I take? That would make my job a little a little more dull, right? But instead, you could just ask all kinds of things. And, you know, is it possible if I do this and this and this and this, and can I make that work? I'm like, Yeah, let's go for it. Let's see if we can make that happen. And I also always think of advisors as, like, puzzle solvers. I feel like most advisors, I know, like puzzles because it's like, each student, you have to put the pieces together to make a puzzle to graduate, and that's really fun, and it's neat when everything comes together and you see that this person who really wanted to do these unusual things or was a little unsure of themselves, how the and their pieces actually do fit together.

Bri Harvie  
Oh, it's so good. I love that. I love I'm right with you. I feel like every advisor loves that puzzle. For most of us. For sure, I love what you're talking about with the silly questions and answering them and being that safe space. And it's something I could do a whole podcast just about the importance of silly questions. Yeah, because I think it's once you can create that safe space for whether it's a student or somebody on your team, and recognizing, like I say to my team all the time, you might feel like it's a dumb question. Ask it anyway, because the worst that's going to happen is I might judge you a little bit I don't, but let's pretend for a second I might judge you a little bit that has nothing to do with you. That is an issue, not an issue, right? Like it's you have to get the answer, because if you don't ask the question, then you're just off in the world, yes, without the answers that you need. On the flip side, the only thing that, the only harm that could come from asking that silly question might be that you think a little bit less of me, but I control that right, like it's just it's so important to be able to have those conversations and ask those silly questions. I am yeah, I love it. I love asking silly questions, and I love it when people ask when people ask me them, because most of the time I also have the same question. If it's a silly question, I'm like, bye, bye. Let's figure this out together. It's well, I think it's great, and I think there's a lot to be said for being able to be that person who helps put those puzzle pieces. Together and answers the silly questions. And I want to kind of flip that a little bit and say So, thinking about times when you maybe didn't ask the question as a new leader, thinking back to when you first started taking over administration and advising, what is a lesson that you learned the hard way. What was the question that you wish you had asked and the answer that you had to learn for yourself?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Oh, yeah, I try the best lesson I learned. I learned early enough, but not as early as I wish I had learned. It was to always ask for things. And I pretty much knew this because I have a philosophy with students, which is always asked, the worst thing they can say is no, again, I'm with you. Bree like and maybe for two seconds they judge you for that question, but also then they move on in life and they forget about it, but really they say no, and then you move on in life. And so I tell students all the time, the worst thing they can do is say no. And I try to take this advice for myself, but we got and this was I took over as director in December 2019, so what could possibly go wrong? And so obviously my first few years were weird, and we got budgets, and I thought I never asked that our budget was set in stone, and that was all the money you ever could get. And one year, I decided this was a couple, maybe three years in that I wanted some extra funds to and I'm this time, I don't even remember what it was to have a book club or something. And so I went prepared to ask our Associate Dean, you know, the explanation of what? And she was like, oh, yeah, yeah, you have $1,000 do you need more? And I was like, Uh, I take, yeah, sure, I'll take an extra 500 and I just realized that that budget is not set in stone, and there's extra money, not obviously 10s of 1000s of dollars sitting around, but that I could ask for more money, and if I had a reason behind it, this was a very reasonable ask, instead of like, looking at my, you know, $8,000 and thinking exactly, counting on every penny, because I thought there was no possible way I could get anything more. And so the whether it's about money or whatever it's about, it really reinforced me the lesson that I knew, and I should have just known in that moment too, which is that you always ask, because the worst thing they can do is say is we have no more money, in which I say, Thank you for your time. And that's my answer, right? And so would definitely say to people in all positions to just ask for things. Obviously, with you know, with you want, your reason, your rationale, with it, but you know, because the worst thing they can do is say no, and then you you know, and I have my team knows that I will ask for whatever for them as long as it's reasonable, and I've got some data to back it up. And I have been told yes more than I've been told no. Been told no, a lot, but I've been told yes more. And so that definitely also reinforces the message that you that, and also that not every no is a no. Forever, I've been told no and then yes later when situation changes, oh, 100%

Bri Harvie  
and I think often of the saying of, like, doctors make the worst patients. I feel like advisors make the worst advice in a lot of ways too, because everything that we say to students, we have trouble doing ourselves. So I don't think you're alone in that. Like, oh, you should have just asked. I want to flip the conversation a little bit. So this is an emerging Voices Podcast. So we're talking about Nakata and the Emerging Leaders Program. How did you through your advising career? Get involved in Nakata?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, I so I was a PhD student, you know, earlier, and we were, it was drilled into our head that you found your professional academic organization and you got involved in it. And so in graduate school, that was clearly the Human Development Organization, Child Development Association for Child Development Research. And so when I became an advisor, I still had that want to get involved in research and academia and scholarship, and I don't even know exactly how it first, like changed you, but I was like, there's an advising scholarly Association. I was thrilled. And so I went to my first Nakada conference in 2011 and I start and then I started with presenting. I started with reading proposals. I think those are the first two things I started doing, going to conferences and presenting and reading proposals. And I was like, these are my people. You know instantly you knew when you went to conferences that other other people that like to talk on advising. This is great. And I also just had been so drilled in me that you contribute to your society too, like you, present, you publish, you do all those things. And so it was, it was really natural, because I was a part of me that's still that I still was interested in, too, not just drilled in, but also still was really interested in that contributing to the greater community of practitioners and scholars in your field. And my field was now advising. So then I started doing research. Research also on advising, because it didn't make sense to do research on teacher, child relationship quality was my dissertation topic. That didn't make any sense. But then I was like, wait, I could do research on advising, because that's what I do. So it made such, so much sense, and Nakata provided the platform to present and publish on that. And then after a while of being involved in Nakata, I really thought it's it's time that I start going to more leadership roles, because I've been going for years, and I loved it. I feel like the conference always fills my cup. But I hadn't done anything more than like, volunteered at conferences and volunteered, like, fun proposal readers and things like that. But I hadn't ever been like, in a leadership role, and so I went, I applied for a couple at once, and I got put on the advisory board for the conference and annual conference, and then I became the Arizona chair for region 10. So I was like my first two leadership positions, and then I eventually became the conference co chair for the region 1020, 24 conference. Can't remember what year it was that was, and this is no joke. I can't even say work. I can say it was one of the funnest things I've done in my life. I like to say it was the funnest thing I did in work life, but it's actually in my whole life, my co chair was named CAMI Merrifield, who's often my co author in projects and and papers and so, you know, so one of my best friends. And so we were chairs together, which was just so much fun. And that was an amazing experience. And then I ran to become the chair of region 10, which I'm currently serving, is the chair of my region 10, and I'm good friends with Jared Burton. And he told me, you really should run to be a mentor for emerging leaders. And so I said, Okay, Jared, because I I have Jared and I often tap each other in to do things. Like I made him be on my conference committee, made him and he told me, literally, he'd take any position I put him in. And so he was like, You should run, you should apply. And I was like, Okay, I'll apply, because, you know, I wanted to pay him back a favor. And I was like, oh, emerging leaders. I know what? About the Emerging Leader Program, mostly because he'd done it and thought it was really cool. And so I applied to be a mentor, and then I was picked for that. And so that is what I'm currently serving as a mentor. And the region 10 chair.

Bri Harvie  
Oh, it's so great. I love this, and I love how often is somebody just being like, You should do that. You're like, Okay. And then it happens. One of the things Nakata is great for. We're like, Sure. Why not? We'll give it a go. When I think about the value of Nakata and advising, and you spoke to this in the beginning of your answer about having somewhere for folks in our profession to go have a place where they can share and publish and do research and connect about our our profession and what we do on a daily basis. I think the other role that Nakata is uniquely positioned to play in academic advising is it's a safe place to have some honest conversations about advising without kind of institutional pressures impacting what you might say or discuss, not that we're all having, like closed door meetings and other institutions anytime we go to conferences. I guess what my person did, but more just the like, what does this actually look like when I don't have to think about budgets and staff and student ratios and all of those things. What does advising look like in our institution, state, country, whatever. And I would be curious to hear what your thoughts are on, what are some things that you have been able to or you think should be talked about in that kind of audit space of Nakata that we aren't talking about enough, or that we could talk about more?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, I really like that, that concept of Yeah, talking a free space to talk about things. And also too, because it's different universities I learned so much from what other people do. Because sometimes I'm in the bubble of the, you know, my university, and everything that we do and like, but what are other people doing? And sometimes that teaches you better practices. Sometimes you go, Oh, whoa. Actually, I think we're doing things. You know, maybe I can tell you how we're doing things. And so I think, really, it'd be great for advisors to talk about what, what policies we've sort of come we maybe our dream policies for students, or what would we really like to see our universities do? Like? What would we like to see recommendations for students? Maybe, I know every school is different, and that's why this makes this makes this very hard. But good advising is still good advising regardless of the student or the school type of school type of program. And so really just sort of talking about, what are the roots of good advising, and what do we think universities usually get right, because don't want to always. Be negative. But also then, what do we think sometimes they miss? And what could we maybe, as an institute, as a as an organization, do to say, what do we think they're they're missing? And then also just appraise to like, maybe what, what have we gotten Right? Or especially over years of things have changed, and what has perhaps improved, to understand students better. And then really, maybe, what would we, as Nakata, like to recommend sort of as best practice, just sort of best practices for all students, regardless of school that they're at.

Bri Harvie  
Yeah, I think that's totally fair, and I agree with you that I love the opportunity to learn from other folks. And as much as there's there's differences, there's also a lot of similarities. You said something along the lines of, like learning about what good advising is, and good advising doesn't really change where. It doesn't matter where you are. Good advising is good advising. What is one thing that you've learned from your leadership journey specifically so your time planning conferences or Arizona chair region 10 chair, through your leadership experience in Nakata that you think has changed how you view good advising?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, I think I really, I don't know if this is through my leadership. This is definitely through me growing as a person through my leadership journey and just growing as a as a leader and as an advisor is is really framing, and you said something about this, Bri too, like it's a it's a me issue, and that is really framing the way that I interpret things, because I think that, and this is definitely when I was a newer advisor, and I see this in new advisors too, is sort of thinking this student's angry at me. The student is being mean. And I really frame those as in one, I don't believe any students actually angry at me. I think students are frustrated with systems. I think students are frustrated with answers. I don't think anyone knows me enough to be angry. They don't actually know me, and I don't actually think anyone. And I think that when students act like lash out and perhaps say something that's rude or unappreciative, it's always rooted in fear and anxiety, and that they're scared that they're doing something wrong, and they're scared that they're not going to graduate, and they're scared that they've invested all this time and money and that they're going to fail, and that my job is to sort of take that and and come from a place of understanding. Doesn't mean I excuse when people are like, you know, write a rude email, but come from the, you know, I know that this is frustrating kind of perspective. And here's the thing, I have the goal of helping you graduate, and that's you and I are on the same page, and let's make a plan to make that happen. And I find that because I used to talk that way, but I don't always feel that way. Like somebody like, feel like, oh, you know, I felt a little like advisors will come to and they're like, they just don't ever listen to me. And I'll be like, and I'll be like, you know, at some time you you also do the best that you can do. That's other thing. But that's my other second piece I'll get to one is is coming from a place of understanding that people are people react out of fear and anxiety, and to try to frame the way you think about that, because that's the only thing person you have control over and also frame. The other thing is, if you know you did the best job that you could do, then you've succeeded. If the student doesn't listen to you, you did your job, just like if your team members don't listen, you did your job. But if you're like, you know what? I could have perhaps come at them with a little more compassion, or maybe worded this differently, I'll do that next time. But if you're like, I laid out all the options to them, and they still did this, because I still get team members who are like, but they still did this, I said, but they did at the end of the day, they're an autonomous human being who's going to make that decision. And when they come to you and say, I succeeded, you can say, yay. If they come to you and say, oops, you can say, Okay, let's go back to the drawing board, you know. So you're you, but you let it go, because you can only do the best job that you can do. And I think we can't carry the weights of all of our students problems and decisions on us. We just, in that moment, could do the best job that we could do. Oh, 100%

Bri Harvie  
I think it's actually what you were talking about. Just there is one of the hardest parts of working with adult learners, is the ability to just let it go, because you can give them it's like, there's that Nakata poster. And I used to have one of my office. I don't know why I'm looking around. It's not here, but it says, We advise you decide. Yeah, that whole mentality of like, I can give you all of the options, and if you want my advice, I will give you my advice on which option I would choose for my circumstances and pros and cons and all of the things. And then they could go totally left field and make their own decision. And you have to be okay with it. Because they're a grown up and it is the worst. Sometimes you're like, just do, just do it this way, though, and it'll be fine. And sometimes it would be fine, and sometimes it wouldn't, because it's something else I think that we are good at saying to students is, you know you better than I know you. So I mean, give you all the options, and then you have to pick the one that makes the most sense for you. But just pick the right one. Right like, it's a really hard

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
one that I'm telling Yeah, that's the thing I had because in motivational interviewing, is the fixing reflex. I definitely am fixer like, I'm a picks person. That's like, I know the solution. I've also gotten better at that, as I've advised, is just listening to people, and then also the thing that you know, you know, you got to do what you think is best for you. At the end of the day, you are you. You got to live with you. I'm happy to tell you what I think. And students will be like, Well, what do you think? And I'm like, great. I'm going to tell you what I think. But also know that, yeah. And also sometimes I'm honestly like, you know what both options are? Great. I like saying that too. Whereas I'm like, actually leaning one. I'm thinking, you need to decide. I'm gonna lay it out some pros and cons, and you need to fit yourself. Which would you do? Okay, I'll tell you which one I would do, but I'm not you.

Bri Harvie  
And it is hard. It's yeah, that is a hard thing to learn, to be okay with and to not let that, like, carry you home at the end of the day being like, Oh God, what if they pick the wrong one? Because they're going to, students are going to pick ones that like you say, they come back and they're like, Oops, that didn't work. You're like, Okay, then let's figure this out. Hopefully there's a lesson in there somewhere that you learned. I'm going to try not to lose sleep over this. Well, I'll just move forward. But it is a hard thing to learn. I so I think when I think about things that I wish I had learned earlier on in advising, that was one of them, for sure. But if you were thinking about one thing that you wish, 2006 Allison knew about advising or a lesson that you wish 2006 Allison learned, what do you think it would be? Yeah.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
I think it would be the, yeah, let go of student problems. It would be that let go of the weight of feeling responsible for them. I think it would also be that everybody makes mistakes. Because I've also advisors come to me and they're like, I made a mistake. And I'm like, Really, okay. They're like, this is what it is. I was like, You know what? It's not even like, there's not even going to be like, a negative repercussion for this, because I'm one of those people who is harder on myself than anyone else, most of us, and so I definitely would give myself grace to say that you're going to say the wrong thing from time to time, and that's okay. And also, if a student you know displays anger for you that that's, it's okay, right? Like, also, I don't, I don't take anger personally. That took forever. You know, that was definitely not a 20 year 20 something year old Allison was able to because I would feel sad, because I would feel sad when people said things towards me, but over time, to and to just remember that, yeah, we all do the best job that we can do, right and at any moment, and if you feel like you are being a good version of yourself, then you're doing a good job. And to always want to learn, of course, from it. But you know, at the end of the day, if you're like, Yeah, you know, I gave that student a really good you know, we had a really good conversation. And what they picked, do you choose to do, you know, or oops, they dropped that class that I told them 10 times not to drop I told them not to try. I advised them not to drop it, because, again, today, of course, I cannot make them do things. I strongly advise them not to drop it. But then they did, and that's okay, because we can, we can go down a different plan. And that's what's also so fun about advising, is there is not one path or success for students. And so even if oops, they didn't listen to you, oops, they did drop that class, we can go and explore an alternate, alternate path and and that's what I'm here for you. And also the the not judging. Thing I have had students. I once told a student very strongly. I was like, I think you should just do a retro or a complete withdrawal. And he said, No, no, I want to keep this one class. Blah, blah, blah, blah. We have this long conversation. Fast forward a semester. He's like, I'd like to do a retroactive withdrawal. And all my brain was screaming, I told you so, and that's not what I said. Was great. Here's the paperwork, da, da, da, da, right. But in that moment, I was like, Do you remember when I told you that you should do a complete withdrawal, but that that's not what we ever do? Is it academic advisors? Because also then I let it go, because I also know that that student, at that moment, just like me, was making what he thought was the best decision for himself, the knowledge he had, hindsight is 2020, and that's all that we all can do,

Bri Harvie  
100% and like, whenever anybody's making a decision, I doubt that there's a lot of like. I wonder how I could make this worse. I wonder, right? Like, people are always going to make the best decisions, and I think it's particularly challenging for that university age students. You. 18 to 25 year olds that most undergrads fall into, and success is a moving target, right? Like they're still figuring out what they want their lives to look like. And so yeah, that decision might have made sense today, but a year from now, your life could look 100% different than it did. And it's like, okay, well, don't beat yourself up for the decision that you made in that moment. Understand why you made it, and understand why you would make a different one now and then, use that lesson, that information, to change how you would make this decision, right? Like, help them grow through their mistakes.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah. Is it that is another wild ride? Yeah. Is that we can be like, okay, cool. How might we have done this different, right? Yes, because that helps so much when we reflect on what we would have done differently, and they're like, oh, yeah, okay, God, yeah, yeah. And also, but then again, that judgment free zone, if I'm judging you for two seconds, that's me. I let that go. And then, because I just practice a lot of like, just understanding that also, I don't know where people come from, that's another good thing to know is that I have know so little actually about you. I don't know your past I don't know what your past experiences have taught you to do or reinforced you to do, and so I have to just operate from that there's so much about you I don't know and right, and to not just sort of assume that you did this because of blah, blah, blah. That was another good advice I just get to give just to give certain people. It's just sort of don't, don't guess that, maybe don't try to guess why the student did the thing you did they did. One, you'll probably be wrong, and two, will just sort of be a frustrating exercise. Yeah, it doesn't change anything. Yeah. I like to tell students, okay, we can't go back in time. How do we move forward? Because a really good philosophy. And for me too, is like, whenever something happens, okay, we can't go back in time. We can't redo that. But what can we do now about it?

Bri Harvie  
Moving to that, like, solution focused thinking, right? Like, don't focus on the problem. Problems already done. It's happened. How do we get over it? Oh, so much, so much good stuff. Drawing towards the end of our our time here today, I'd love to hear personally for you, Allison, what is next for you? Do you have goals for the Emerging Leaders Program or for your own career, like, what are you? It's January 22 2026, what is in your 2026 vision board?

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Yeah, it's a great question, because my term as region 10 chair does end in October at the annual conference. It's so much fun. But then I'm done. So then, of course, I'm starting. I'm like, what would I do next? And I definitely do want more leadership roles in NACADA. I have a couple of options that I might be interested in. I potentially could run for the board one day, might do that. I could go continue to work with the region chairs. I could go in a different direction and pick maybe a community this time, or advising community, or just go in a different I do really love region. I do I have really to love the regions. And maybe that's only because that's the one I become the most involved in because I have other people who say, No, the others are best. I think it's really the one so but I could pivot, because it would be really fun to explore, because there's just so much to explore in Nakata. But I definitely do want to continue to have a leadership role in Nakata, and it will be neat, because I'm opening and also be done with my Emerging Leader mentorship as well. So that is those both end in October, which means I will be free to take on some new challenge. Yeah, and that's my Nakata goal. I don't have an exact one to do, because I I have, I have still time to think about it. Another just personal goal for me is I love to get new people involved in NACADA, and I have have several of my co workers are now serving as are moving into their first leadership roles in NACADA. So I'm super excited about that. And so I'm always looking for people who seem interested and coming in and being like, Hey, have you thought about, you know, reading proposals, that's usually how we start. Have you thought about going to a conference? Going to a conference, presenting at a conference, you know, looking at the things you know, by just, just getting involved. Because I think, and I've heard other people say this, and I couldn't agree more with it that people have said that Nakata is one of the reasons they've lasted so long in academic advising. And I couldn't agree more the people are just are so wonderful, and you build such great relationships. And it also just keeps you sustained and excited about the profession, and it also moves you outside of your bubble, because your your your university. I love working at my university, but, you know, it helps me see the whole bigger advising world. And that is really fulfilling, too, because sometimes all you think about is that one silly policy at your university, and now you can just think about a whole lot more. And so I think it is the best way to really keep going in your profession, and the caught or advising. Is my profession, and so I will, yeah, I want to continue to just grow and do new things.

Bri Harvie  
It's so great I can't take wait to see what's next. It's, there's a bunch of us that are cycling off of stuff in October, and it's, I'd be interested to see where everybody lands, because I think a lot of people are like, yeah, so what's next? What's what's coming down the road? This isn't it for us. So I love that. I can't wait to see what's next for you, and with that, I think we are about out of time. So thank you, Allison, for coming. This has been great. I love getting to chat with you regularly. This is so good.

Allison Ewing-Cooper  
Thank you, Bri. This was wonderful.