S2, Ep. 3 - Michael Geroux - Emerging Voices

What does it take to grow leaders in NACADA while coaching, writing a dissertation, and building a mentoring network that feels more like a chosen family? In this episode of Emerging Voices, Matt and Bri sit down with mentor Michael Geroux, affectionately known as Mike G, to explore what it really means to guide, connect, and grow within the 2024 to 2026 Emerging Leaders cohort.

From Pod mentoring dynamics to the art of helping leaders focus their fire instead of trying to conquer every goal at once, Mike shares candid reflections on balancing structure with flexibility, ambition with grace, and leadership with humility. The conversation moves from the power of professional connection in NACADA to the realities of pursuing a doctorate while managing a full life. There is real talk about failure, persistence, imposter moments, and the quiet courage it takes to keep going.

You will also hear about:

• How mentoring often becomes reverse mentoring
 • Why you do not need to “do it all” to make an impact
 • The difference between sprinting and persisting in doctoral work
 • Building your advising niche without racing anyone else
 • Using appreciative education as a leadership framework

*Emerging Voices is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Well, hello and welcome back to Emerging Voices an Emerging Leaders Program podcast series. This is Matt Markin along with...

Bri Harvie  
Hello. It's Bri Harvie.

Matt Markin  
Bree, I interviewed Sarah Howard in the last episode, and you weren't there.

Bri Harvie  
No, I'm so sad. Sarah's one of my favorite people. Just Well, I'm excited to listen to it now, so that'll be fun.

Matt Markin  
Well, friend, I'm glad that you're you're here because we get to chat with another of the mentors from the 2024 to 2026 Emerging Leaders cohort, and that is Mike Geroux or also known as Mike G. Mike, what's up?

Mike Geroux  
Hey, friends. Good to see you. Happy end of the semester. Happy holidays. 

Matt Markin  
And even though this isn't those that are listening to it right now, it's probably sometime in 2026. We are recording this in December and if you're not seeing a video version of this and listening to the audio version of this podcast, Mike G is very festive today.

Mike Geroux  
Yes, I have on my comes out once a year, just for Bri today.

Matt Markin  
And Bri, what you have a little cool sweatshirt on?

Bri Harvie  
I do I have my, my buddy, the elf one, and it's horrible. And he says, Bye buddy. I have a Christmas sweater for like, every day in December. So, Mike, you ever need to borrow one? I'm good of varying work appropriate. There's a scale.

Matt Markin  
I love it. Well, Mike, we're glad that you're here. And is this your first rodeo with being a mentor in Emerging Leaders?

Mike Geroux  
Second, second, but the first go around was I was involved, but my leader, other things came up in their life, and they weren't able to engage with the program on the level that I know, that she would have wanted, and what I was kind of looking for right in that experience. So it was my second time as a mentor, but for all, for the three of us, and like our other mentors, this is the first time with a pod setup, which is interesting.

Bri Harvie  
Yeah, it's, it's the pod is really it's a very different vibe. What do you think the biggest difference between the two, the two different buckets are having a one on one, versus this pod? 

Mike Geroux  
That's a good question, you know, from so if I'm thinking about some of our other like mentors who've gone through the program, like, you know, Brody and Kevin Thomas and David Spight and you know, people I interact with regularly, they talk about how they're able to do a real deep dive and kind of really dig in with their leader. And that kind of, in a in that hair, really helped them, you know, find, figure out their goals and find their successes, and even, like the challenges along the way, you know, in the pod setup, I think just knowing that you're going into it and you're working with two leaders at the same time, if you just have to be cognizant of that, and, you know, can you Like, okay, my attention is kind of divided at times. You know, for me, I'm working with Haley and Eric, and they're doing different things, and those two are absolutely amazing. And so knowing that, going into it, we set it up so we do monthly pod meetings, because I think that the one benefit is they get to learn from each other, and it kind of feed off of each other's experiences. But then I still do one on one monthly meetings with them to kind of get at what the original structure of program was, right? So I'll have an hour with Eric. In fact, we're meeting tomorrow, and then Haley and I are meeting on Friday, and then after, we can have that, like deep dive as to what they're looking I'm looking to do you know. So I don't know if you know, I'm sure it'd be interesting to see what like the kind of the reason feedback is on this new structure. People find it builds a better community, and if it's more conducive for, you know, connecting other mentors, like Matt, like you and I and Sarah met with Cami that one day early on the last year, so, or if it's, you know, if those connections are already there, I don't know.

Matt Markin  
So bringing I have talked like offline about this, because I feel like I missed, maybe I misunderstood what the pod setup was, or they or it was changed after they told us what it was. But either way, that's all I'm going to say about it, right? But I feel it works, and I'm glad that works out for for you and your, I guess, pod mates, I guess you might say, I know, like, for Jing and Brandon and I, like, we initially started with doing like, one on ones, and then Jing had the idea of, like, can we just do a, you know, do. Pod meeting together with all of us. That way you can kind of ask each other questions, learn what everyone else is, each other are doing. And I feel that that's kind of worked out. But tell us more about about your pod mates, about your emerging leaders. 

Mike Geroux  
I think they're wonderful, you know, but you what you're saying there. Matt got me thinking as well that the role the mentor in the pod structure is different, and I don't think it was really clearly articulated as to what we should be doing as mentors, right? And I understand they're trying to leave it kind of open in each pod we kind of design and meet their own needs. But as mentors this, you know, for this class year, I feel in some ways, we're doing more than my mentors were in the past, because we're trying to serve the needs of two leaders, but also serving the needs of the class. So yeah, you know, interesting that we'll talk more offline of that. But you know, Haley and Aric, I mean, wow, like these two, like they don't need me remaining. Was just just to kind of validate and say, yeah, what you're doing makes sense. And I was more of a sounding board for them, not just when they kind of things, but like with their own professional lives as well, because both of them, in the time started working together, have taken new on new roles. Aric is still the same institution, just a different and advisor role in engineering department. And Haley just moved to Missouri, like, new job and new state like, and she, she made that move, like, within like, less than a week when one job ended, the other one started. She's like, Okay, pack the car. I'm out, and I just but they are so involved in so many things. And Aric has got very involved in illicita and NACADA, I think he's a treasurer in ilocata. He's teaching, doing grad work. He's super impressive. And his at one point, I think how this came together, we had a conversation, which I think came off another conversation he had with someone about doing a presentation, just talking about how he kind of learns to be a good advisor from working with his his dog and someone had mentioned that him and we have talked briefly about it, and that's something I want him to see him, kind of, he did that as I've got a presentation for something, maybe for a job, and then I want him to, like, be great if he does that, like, at region and annual, you know, level. And, you know, Haley is big into doing mentorship in her region. She's a region seven. She's getting the mentorship program going, and we've talked ideas, and I've connected her with Gavin to, you know, forever to talk more about mentorship. And, you know, to see them like, find their their place, you know, and you're starting to carve out their niche areas is unbelievable. And I think the cool thing about being a mentor, yeah, while it's designed in a way that, like they're the mentees, or we're the mentors. Like, I learned so much from them, and I get inspiration from them to remind me that, yeah, like, there's like, keep doing the good things.

Matt Markin  
So I will say, if Aric and the dog presentation happens at region and or annual, and I think Bri and I can say that that came out of the podcast.

Bri Harvie  
It sure did. We should get, like, production credit or something.

Mike Geroux  
I just started listening to his emerging voices episode just last week, which is months after it was recorded. I'm like, Yes, that's right. Now it's all coming together. To your point earlier, Matt, how? Like, we're recording this in December, but it will be released.

Bri Harvie  
That was one of the first ones we had. Like, we feel like we could just do a pet September readers podcast. And it's, I was so distracted by this dog, so sweet. So yeah, I really hope that happens for for Aric, yes. And it's, I appreciate what you were saying too, about, like, just being there, really to facilitate. That's what Matt and I were talking about, too, with, like, we get together with our pods, and I'm like, you guys know more than I do. Like, I don't need to be here. It's wild. How, how achieved these people are. Team does not a word. I just made that up. Well, it is just not in this context. Yeah, like, they're just, they're we're all killing it. They're all rock stars. And then we walk in and we're like, I guess just keep doing what you're doing, what you're doing, we make an introduction, because that person's also doing really well. So that is my contribution, right?

Mike Geroux  
Yeah, it's um, in some ways, you almost kind of like reverse mentor it in the sense that you can't do it all right? So I mean, one of the things that I have done. Not just for these two, just in other people I have mentored, is to say, Look, you have like, these six things that you want to do. Let's identify two or three that are going to be our short term goals, and then think about what's the mid range and long term goals? Because, like, the college I'm going anywhere, you don't have to do everything right now, which I think people feel that they have to like. Everyone feels like, I need to like present at all the conferences, and I need to get involved in all the committees. Have to do it all right now, and I love that enthusiasm and excitement, but you don't have to do everything right away, right lean into the areas that you are really passionate about, or also understand what's on your plate, right? Both Haley and Aric took on new jobs, okay? And there's a lot that comes with that, comes with that, especially for Helen, moving into a different, whole different state, right? Yeah, some things might get they were on the plate. Might get pushed to the side while you're like, settling into your new role. But she's fortunate that Cecilia is at Missouri with her, and so I like she was talking to me about a job opportunity. I think, Well, talk to Cecilia. She's got the institutional and cultural knowledge of your institution, and see if, like, does that make sense? Because you're just, you're new, you know, I gave her my feedback on it, you know, and then she made great connections there. And now she's got someone who is like another mentor right at her institution, which is super important.

Matt Markin  
And I think that's also something us as mentors is also just trying to help them network and get to meet others and learn from them, ask them the questions. Now you were mentioned in terms of, like some of the mentees or the emerging leaders, kind of having a lot of goals and wanting to kind of do them all at once. Is that something you've had to kind of work with them on, of like, you know, you have two years in this program. We have year one goals to your two goals. And even after this program, okay, we can save some of these goals for later.

Mike Geroux  
Yeah, we've talked about that. And also, I emphasize that a goal to identify in year one can be changed. Right? You don't have to meet every goal, because if things change in your world, personally or professionally, or opportunity to join a committee comes up, it takes you in a different direction, right? You can adjust, adjust your goals. And I also, I like to emphasize with the leaders you know, with anyone that we're working with, anything you do is going to make an impact. It is not a competition, right? You don't. No one gets a gold star. I don't say this to them, like, directly, but they get it like, they don't get a gold star because you did like, the most things, right? You have to do what aligns with who you are as an Academy member. And so we talked about, even, kind of laid out, like some of the original goals and how they were going to, how they didn't shift. But not all their goals were specifically NACADA related, you know, for, you know, for Aric, it was, you know, illicita, which is associated with NACADA, right? And he wants to do some writing, and he wanted to do a blog to our host, and he submitted something. And then I was able to kind of gather that the blog isn't really read much anymore, but my one on one with him, I'm going to recommend the wouldn't Matt, you and Ryan have the what are the advising quarterly?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, Academic Advising Quarterly. So yeah, please tell Aric to submit something.

Mike Geroux  
I'm going to because he has a piece he wants to write about how he connects wisdom, I think, from Beyonce to life and advising, he's so tuned, outstanding.

Bri Harvie  
Yeah, oh my gosh, I love that.

Mike Geroux  
You know, I agree. It's like we're it's more about the making the connections, right? It's the connections.

Bri Harvie  
Yeah. So thinking about kind of your role in this as the the connector, if you will, what are some of the goals that you have coming out of the program, being a mentor?

Mike Geroux  
That's a good question. I think it's important to note that I applied to be an emerging leader, like years ago, it was not selected for the program, which is fine, or dealing with those feelings still several years later, but I just a scooch of lingering trauma is right? Just a little bit seriously. I've talked to other people. People about this who were not selected for the program. I was like, Look, that doesn't mean you can't find a mentor in NACADA. You can't do the things that you want to do, right? And that's how what led me to connecting, working more closely with like Brody and KT, and then eventually connecting with Jenny bloom, who's now such a wonderful friend, and mentoring me and guiding me through my dissertation process. And like, you know, Vince from from Region One, we've co authored an A T article so you can still find like, your people, like, you know. And so what I try to do, you know, when we're at conferences, is I try to make connections for people. If I'm talking to somebody in the hallway about, like, purifying, or whatever it may be. And I know someone else who's involved in that, I'm like, I'm like, Hey, you guys, Matt, you're doing the same thing. Like, and I get the conversation started, then I kind of like, just back away and let that, let that happen. So like, my my goal for being a mentor this year, one was to experience what it means to be a mentor in Emerging Leaders Program, and the way that it's really designed to be, and what a lot of like our good friends and colleagues have experienced from a mentor perspective. And I want to be feel that connection with the leaders I'm working with, and be part of that community. I was half part of it before I wanted to be fully immersed into it. And then two is helping, just helping people find their pathways in the niche areas, if I feel that I was able to make an impact, right, in some small way, you know, to help like Eric and Haley figure out, you know who they are within the association as they're thinking about leadership roles. That's great, right? And I guess three is to be part of this special group, right? It's not just you're part of the class here. Once you're in emergency program, you're part of a very special group of members and colleagues and friends in the association that I take a lot of pride in, especially as a mentor, right? I don't think you need to have necessarily serve in, like, the high level leadership positions or necessarily won, like a big award. I think there's something that you kind of carry with you. You know, you could say, I'm, have been, or I am, or have been a mentor with Emerging Leaders Program. People in association understand, like, what that means, right? And people look to you whether they're in the program or not. They're looking to you for guidance and support and wisdom.

Matt Markin  
I think that's perfectly said. I'm interested to kind of learn more about your mentors, because you mentioned a few people, and can you tell us more about with some of these mentors, like, what got you connected to them? And especially with Jenny bloom, yeah, gosh. I mean, every, I think everybody knows Jenny bloom, everyone knows Jenny.

Mike Geroux  
And I'm trying to think, I don't really remember, like, how we first got connected. We it was through somebody else. I'm sure, in a conversation, it was like, like, Jesus, Jenny. Like, I of course know, like, oh yeah, I know who Jenny is. But it wasn't an immediate, like, hit it off and started to get we met. I went to a couple of recessions, started talking about PhD stuff and my research, and then just stayed in contact. And now it's become like, we're back. I owe her another section of my chapter two draft on January 2, so she can edit that section. And we meet regularly. And it's really interesting, because she talks about this all the frequently, while people think that because she was president and because she bloom appreciated advising all the things, and they're like, oh my god, there's Jenny. Like, ah. And then when you start talking to her, you realize, oh, wow, she's just down to earth, and just one of the most wonderful human beings I've ever met. And she always goes out of her way to do things for the people that she is connected with and working with, right? So much so that, like my research on advising organizational models from my dissertation is based on the work that was done by West Habley back in the 1980s and when I jumped on one of our zoom meetings, well, who's on the call, but Wes, I'm like, Oh my God, right. And again, even that, I'm like, I was like, awestruck. And then we started talking, and I was like, wow, he's just cool, like, just a normal guy who loves advising as much as anyone else does. And now we stay in contact. One of the nice things about being in the program for our leaders is it may give them more direct access to connect with mentors that serve the needs you know, that they have right, whereas I've done it kind of on my own right. So Jenny is serving like my needs as an advising professional and advising administrator and a doctoral student, I remember years ago, Brody did the keynote for us at region one, and I just was like, wow, Mike, his vibes, his energy is like, we had a connection, and then we connected through soccer. We stayed in contact, and then Kevin Thomas was on. On one of my faculty for I did the virtual administrators Institute, right? And we just made a good connection. And so when I will talk to them, if I'm doing I had a job interview a while back, and I had to do a presentation, and I wanted to put a slide in about who I was. And so I was kind of running through ideas with Brody on how to do that. Well, my first mentor was Vince mizkowski from Region One. I went to the emerging leaders info session at my first region one conference, and we ended up talking for almost an hour after that session, and we just stayed in contact. And then that led to co authoring an AP article to find people that are will help you grow in different ways. I like to think of it in the sense that, if you have, like, a triangle, and you're at the base of the bottom, and you want to think about how you're growing out to then grow up, right? How are you building your foundation in different ways to move upwards, if you go up too quickly, you're not going to leave substance to really offer. You're trying to get to the next level position, right? Together, you know, kind of experience things, right? And different mentors will serve you in different capacities. Yeah, and to have people on like, a text thread, right? It's so cool.

Bri Harvie  
Well, I think that's one of the lovely things about NACADA in general. Whether or not you're in the ELP program, there are so many people like we say all the time, nobody's in this for the money. We're all here because we're passionate about the work, but that that translates up to each other as well. It's not just about supporting our students. It's about supporting our each other and for each other, sure, each other just thriving. It's great, and those connections that we making. This is Matt and I talked for a long time in our in our episode about how even like, how he and I met and became connected. And it's the ELP program I think does a really great job at making those introductions, if you if you need help, if you want the help, if you need that person to make that connection for you. Because it can be, it's intimidating. There's a lot of people right? Like, it's terrifying, and everybody's so nice, but it's still right. It's just the introvert coming out, but it is still terrifying. So having having somebody make those connections for you, I think, is can be really great. How has this, though, I'd love to hear so you're talking about your dissertation and your work and your writing and things like that, how has Nakata supported you in your your professional life outside of the association?

Mike Geroux  
That's a good question. My and we talk about the NACADA family often, and there's moments in time. So alright, so it's more kind of professionally, but a few years ago, I was starting to get to a point in my career where I knew I wanted, like, the next, like, you know, a growth opportunity, and I felt like I was getting tired of working directly with students, I love them, that they are super important. Without them, none of this works. But I wanted more of the admin, you know, side of things, and I was really struggling with that. I'm like, does that mean that I'm like, I shouldn't be an advising anymore. Am I not a good advisor? And so I started to talk to Kevin Thomas about this, that he's no he's like that, Mike, that's a natural progression for someone who's wants to move from an advisor to an advising Administrator role. It's not that you don't value the students or don't want them or anything like that. It's just that you want to spend more of your time doing like the bigger picture, like work and so to have people that you can just reach out to and just be open and honest with because that is invaluable, right? And there's times where in my career role as an advisory administrator, there's times where I might have frustrations or I need to talk things through, but I am literally as to who we might talk to in my own office, because you just don't know who's listening or how it may be taken, right? So if you talk to somebody outside your you know, institution, who understands what you're talking about, like, that's a key thing they need to, like, know what you're talking about in the sense of, like, what academic advising is, and what does it mean, and all that you can kind of work through things, it validates, first of all, like, what it is that you're going through, right? That, like the struggles are real, your feelings are legit, like your concerns are genuine, and then to kind of come to some bit of a resolution how you're working through that that has been huge for me. Not everyone is some people are fortunate. They have a mentor at their home institution or in their office, or they have a mentor relationship with a supervisor, like I not so much with my own supervisor. That's just a relationship that we have, but I act very much as a mentor to a lot of our staff. But you need to have those people that you can call upon. You know when you're struggling, right, or you're starting to second guess, is this like to your point earlier? Really? We don't do this for the for the money, right? You know, if you start to second guess, like, is this worrying, I should be what I'm doing, be doing right? And call upon these people to validate that. That's huge, yeah, and to then talk to people about how you balance everything right. I'm very open and honest with people about how I manage my time right? As an advising administrator that has a caseload, right? So I'm wearing multiple hats throughout the day, as a doctoral student writing a dissertation. You know, as a father of two and a husband, and I am coaching both of my kids travel teams like Natalie, my daughter has traveled basketball, aid. My son plays travel baseball. I'm coaching on both of those teams, so I figure out how to like my day starts at five or four if I have a writing assignment that I have to get right. So I do my writing in the morning, then that allows me to shift gears and be present in my work during the day. And the end of the day, I shift gears again, and I'm present with my kids and my family, you know, and by nine o'clock, 9:30 I'm done.

Matt Markin  
It's a lot. It's a lot to balance, and then the next day, repeat the whole cycle again. But I like that you mentioned about having mentors or just people you can talk to outside your institution. I mean, I think it's great, yeah, if you have people that you can talk to in can talk to in at your institution, but having people outside, I think, gives you that kind of outside perspective and kind of maybe big picture perspective that maybe we're kind of too zoned in on something very small. And to me, they can kind of take the intricacies of a situation and maybe help make sense of it, or think of other viewpoints that we're not considering, but you're You've mentioned a couple times with the doctoral program. You know, balancing that with everything else you have to do. You mentioned Jenny Bloom, not only just being a mentor, but also kind of working with you through this process. Tell us more about the your doctoral program, like, what are you doing? Why'd you choose it? How's it all going?

Mike Geroux  
Oh, that's a loaded question. I appreciate you not asking the so when you need to be done, when you do with it, because that's what everyone has.

Bri Harvie  
That'll be my next question. So prepare yourself emotionally. You absolutely,

Mike Geroux  
Oh, I should have put some Bailey's in the coffee this morning. So, yeah, it man, it's been a journey. So I guess it's first. I should start with that there is no time frame for doing this type of like work like I'm 47 I think I lose track. But, you know, I started as a non degree student in fall of 18, so I was taking classes towards a program, but not core requirements. And then I matriculated in fall 2020, and I've been working through since then, I chose to do mine part time. So I do one course a semester, right? Because, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, like, with my full plate, that's all I was able to do, one course a semester. And I just that's what worked for me. And I didn't do any summer courses, you know, work through a systematically. And, like, for me, I had like, a couple moments of like, these aha moments. And one was, you know, before I even got into the program, I was getting very involved in the advising literature, like reading, like the journal. Remember when the journal used to come out and print, you get the hard copy, like, I'm I'm a hard copy. Like I print everything. I love the environment and the outdoors, but I also, yeah, I'm killing some trees because I cannot absorb things if I ran out of computer. So like, there's this piles at home of articles, but getting involved in the advising literature and engaging in those conversations, to your point earlier, Matt, like talking to experience advising professionals and administrators and talking to mentors and understanding how they perceive things and what they think about, like what Brody is thinking about individuals and advising administrator makes you thinks about things I might think about something differently. So I was already in that, that flow right, that mindset, and then I started to think about my career trajectory, and I work at a public institution, the University at all based part of the SUNY system. So the public institution, in my first grad class for the program, my professor, Dr Anne Marie Murray, who has been president of several community colleges in in New York State, one of which was actually right, right where I grew up, that Iraq. I didn't know that she was there at the time, but I was a little kid. But she said to me, Mike, if you want to get a seat at the table in public higher ed, she's like, the credentialing is going to matter. And she's like, that doesn't need to be like. She's like, that's. Your sole reason for doing the program, if you want to eventually get a seat at those key tables where you're making key decisions and big decisions, credentialing, it's going to matter. So you just need to know that now, if you stay in the private higher ed sector, not so much. So okay, you know, just something to think about. But for me, it was an opportunity to just do a deeper dive, like in the literature, and it just kind of fed my soul, because I'm like, This is awesome. Now, not every class was was great, like, I'll admit, but a lot of them were really, really interesting. And I just met with one of my advisors last week, and we're talking about how one makes a transition, that transition from a student to a scholar, particularly in the dissertation phase. So in the dissertation phase takes a long time. You know, I'm doing mine part time, but we have some students in our program that are more cohort based, but it's not a strong cohort model like you would find in the Kansas State advising leadership program that Nakata is affiliated with, right? That's a true cohort program, right? My program is many of us are in the program, are full time professionals, parents, doing a part time you're on your own kind of pathway. But when I got to the dissertation, I adjusted my topic several times and landed on stakeholder satisfaction under different advising organizational models, looking at it for contingency theory approach so stakeholders, really in my for my research, is advising administrators like mid level, assistant directors, associate directors, and then senior level, which would be like executive directors, like deans, and, you know, people on those levels. And the contingency theory approach is essentially saying that different situations require different, like styles of leadership. And what I'm interested to understand is how do different, how revising administrators adjust their approaches based on the reporting lines of the advising model, right is under Academic Affairs or under Student Affairs. How do they perceive the benefits of a particular advising model institution? How do they live in that space? Did they have a say in the design of the advising organizational model? Or somebody above them say, we're doing this and you have to make it happen. So it's trying to fill some gaps in the literature in the sense that, like, no one's really looked at the connection between an advising administrator and an advising model, like there's been research done on student like success, persistence and retention, with advising structures, advising models, but not the administrator side. And my topic started with looking at the lived experiences of advising administrators. And then I moved it over to advisor organizational models based on the recommendation from my chair, who specializes in organizational models and structures. And then the advising piece, and this is where Jenny is so instrumental, like she's checking like what I'm writing in. She's the one who could tell me, this aligns. This doesn't make sense, right? What are you trying to stay here? But from i It's very interesting, because I remember, as an undergrad, I knew what the library was at my institution, because I was a tour guide, right? That's the only reason you really library was because I'm like, Oh yeah, that's I pointed out on the tour, right? Did not meet my academic potential as an undergrad. He Fast forward seven years after undergrad to my master's, and that's where I started to find my rhythm as a student, and did well in a master's program 10 years later, now as a doctoral student, I'm like the informal like rep resource library for my staff. If people are coming to me and say, Hey, do you I need an article on X, I'm like, hold, I got some ideas for you, sending people things. But the key piece is, you know, for anyone to consider, like a doctoral program, yeah, whether it be PhD or EDD or not, people now are doing JDS, which, you know, you know, fine as well, is understanding that it's more about the persistence than it is about, like, you know, the like, the intelligence piece, right? It's all about the persistence. You need to figure out how it's going to mesh with, like, with your life, and you have to have your own purpose for doing it. And you can't sprint through this. I finished my coursework, like, about a year and a half ago, right? And the dissertation process, like it just it takes longer when you're not doing it full time, right? And you have to find a topic that you are passionate about, because you are spending so much time researching it. And if you don't enjoy it, it's going to be a lot. And I'm, at the moment, the point in my program where most people will stop out, like most doctoral students in the programs will go through all the coursework, and you get the dissertation phase, and then that's when they're like, I don't know if I can do this right, but there's no race. I don't need it. To do the job I'm doing right now, right? It will come in handy, though, down the road. I know that.

Bri Harvie  
No, that's totally fair, and so I'm gonna, I'm not gonna ask you when you're gonna be done.

Mike Geroux  
It's okay, you can. 

Bri Harvie  
So thinking about you mentioned kind of finding your rhythm, and I mean, I think it's true for a lot of students, not all, but a lot of students that their undergraduate isn't always their best work, and often it is a second or a post degree or something like that, Masters where they find their rhythm, and then, like 12 minutes ago, you also mentioned being a mentor for your staff. How do you use kind of what you're learning on finding your rhythm throughout your own educational journey, in mentoring the staff through their career path.

Mike Geroux  
That's a great question from the student side. It's a little bit easier in sense that I will share with my students, like my authentic approach to advising, as I share with my students my struggles as an undergrad and how like I did not do well. I failed classes. Didn't I was on the right pathway. When they say, No, you're making it up. I'm like, hold, I'll pull out the underground transcript and show them that. And so the student conversation is like some someplace coming together easier in that context with staff, I like to ask staff, particularly those I'm supervising, like, let's talk about your short term, mid range and long term goals, right? So we joke about, you know, saying, Well, don't ask me one of them to be done, because it all goes well, all right, when everyone is listening to this recording, which will be like, maybe March, I hopefully will be very close to defending my proposal, which is just the first part of that right to go in front of the committee, to say, I want to study this, and this is why and how I'm going To do it, right? So my goal is to defend. My proposal in the spring of 26 which, if I can then get things moving quickly, could potentially defend dissertation in spring of 27 we'll see fingers crossed, but I find this staff sometimes have a hard time thinking about, like where they're going and like, what their goals are, because everything, like people tend to default to like time, like specific time frames, oh, three to five years, seven to 10 years, whatever. And it was from a session I don't remember who did. This might have been Terry far, when she's talking about how we have to invest in your own professional development. It was that annual, if somebody, or might have been a brony session, somebody was talking about breaking it down into short term goals, mid range goals and long term goals. And I talked to staff about, how do you want to grow in this space, right within our office at the institution, beyond what makes sense to you, and I give staff just like I do with my students, you know, using an appreciative advising approach of disarming, and then I discover so ask a lot of questions. People aren't asking them these questions, right? And they're not being kind of challenged in a way of thinking about where they want to go. But also, back to our summer earlier points, we're a large staff. We have like 45 people on staff, and it's hard to get past this competition idea right into the helping staff realize that, all right, well, you're new, right? So let's talk about some of the things you're interested in, and let's make a game plan similar to how we're doing it in with emergent leaders, and how we're going to move forward in that sense, and how we're going to be open about challenges we might encounter along the way, or if you're going in one direction, and you can get an opportunity to join a committee in the office or on campus, and just say that's okay to go in that direction. But I will, to your point, Bree I will talk to staff about how I didn't get into advising until I was, like, in my mid 20s. I didn't really find my like, specialized. Area, until I came to UAlbany and got involved in peer advising. And then I, when I stepped into my role as an assistant director, which is January 2020, I had to give up the peer advising program because there was no room for that. And that was a hard decision, hard thing to do. It is finally in the hands of two phenomenal colleagues of mine who are co coordinators, but something that I built from a group of six students, like 25 and it was a phenomenal program that I presented on to pass that on. That's a hard thing, you know, to do so lot of our conversations, like what we have with our students, I tried to do with the staff. And to say it's a you're going to have challenges. You're going to have bumps after everything correct, every time, right? You may go, you want to decide you want to be more involved in a pre law and then you say, Yeah, I don't know if we want to do that, and I want to go every direction, cool, right? Like, we have to encourage growth, and we've encouraged this, you know, idea that we can try things with our staff, and we also have to practice, you know, giving them grace and space allow them to fail, like so it's like the motivational speaker mentor comes out with me when I'm talking to staff, because I've been there, right, and I've tried things, and not all of them go well, and they know. Always do everything correctly, but we're human, right? And I think if you do have those moments, you can then use that experience to help others understand that. Okay, yeah, I failed get back up.

Matt Markin  
I mean, you're leading by example, and I think what you're also showing them is the opportunities that are out there as well. And I think, and the example that you're kind of giving, that you're showing like your staff, is that you're still professionally growing. You know, the doctoral program attending conference is still networking presenting, which, speaking of presenting and conferences. I mean, yes, by the time this comes out, you would have already done this, but you have a virtual conference coming up at the end of January that you're presenting on. Yeah, share a little bit about that.

Mike Geroux  
Yes, we are, actually, where do my notes go? And are you? Are you presenting in that one? Or Ryan?

Matt Markin  
No, Ryan and I are, yeah, we're presenting on how the you could use the Karate Kid movie to discuss and show appreciative advising techniques.

Mike Geroux  
Oh, my God, I I so hope that we're not presenting at the same time and I am able to go to your session. I've gotten much more involved in the appreciative education group, and I have was a facilitator assistant for the appreciative advising institute a couple summers ago. And so for this particular conference, the is online, the appreciative education conference, I'm a Zoom room host, and so I will be like the Zoom host for for one of the sessions. I think it's later in the day. I got that information the other day, and then I have my presentation. So hopefully I can go to yours, because that would be awesome. But anyways, yeah, so I through this, this, like working with Jenny and, like, her team, connected with me and Ellsbury a while, like a long time ago, we've stayed in contact, and it was at one of the meetings, it was like a brainstorming session. I think Michael BRCA set up a little like kind of brainstorming session. And anytime I'm in a room, whether it be in person or virtual, I just want people to connect. And just love to connect people. And I find that sometimes people are hesitant to just put out an idea, or to say, I'd love to do this, but I really don't want to do it alone, so I like to be like that person that brings everyone together, recognizing some people are quiet or shy or introverts. You know, also, I've learned recently that I am an extrovert introvert, that I now really appreciate quiet time in the morning so that I could be more like outgoing during the day, but that's another thing. But anyway, to answer your question, Matt Megan and I connected, and we started talking about advising administrators and appreciative advising, and how you can use the six phases in your work as an administrator and a mentor. So our session is talking about the lived experiences of higher ed administrators utilizing appreciative education in their leadership practices. So we're ideally looking to develop a session. They'll talk a little bit about the six phases and about appreciative education, talk about what it means to be like an administrator. She's coming from the lens of Student Affairs. She's more than the best life world, I have the Academic Affairs side, but we want to or when this goes live, we'll say we hope that we did. We hope that it worked well to create a virtual space for other administrators to join that session and to start to engage in a dialog and to learn from one another. I think that's the one thing I learned a long time ago, is like, when I'm presenting, I'm not in any way, shape or form, saying that I'm an expert on anything that says that I'm very much invested and interested in X topic or x projects. And I want to share some of that with it with hopes that someone might pick up a little nugget in that session, and then take that and run with it when they go back to their own institution. So we're going to try to give some some insight and information, but build in space for people to to collaborate and connect and talk and and because I always learn from people when I'm in sessions, right? That's why I love going to your Ryan sessions,

Bri Harvie  
Mine too. Mike G good grief.

Mike Geroux  
Are you doing the appreciative education? 

Bri Harvie  
No.

Mike Geroux  
But when at conference annual and yes, your sessions as well, yes, oh, yeah.

Bri Harvie  
Oh, I love that. I'm just giving you a hard time. So how? I'm very curious about this, because as an attendee, when people say, let's talk in small groups, it makes me want to throw up in my shoes. So how do you as an extrovert, introvert, balance that like, yes. I get jazzed by this. I don't want to talk about this, but also, strangers are terrifying, and everything's terrifying. The world is terrifying, and now you want me to talk to a stranger.

Mike Geroux  
That's tough. I mean, it's a tough it's a tough balance. I'm just so in love with the work that I'm doing in the work that we all do, sometimes it's having a common theme or comment, you know, that we're all like, kind of centered around just this helps, right? And I think sometimes it's easier in person, right, than it is in a virtual setting, just to ask people, sometimes the small questions, you know, what was? What's been good this morning? One good thing that's happened today. What's one win Do you have, like, you know, this week? So just my questions, like in the chat that people kind of, you know, kind of lean into, and then I will try to make those connections. But Oh, I see Bree hadn't had a great moment working with a student on academic probation. And I see, oh, you know, Matt had said something similar. And you're like, Matt, do you want to, like, tell us a little bit more about how that went, or agree, like, what was it a good takeaway from, you know, from that moment, a nice, I guess, in a virtual sense, like, for people who don't want to speak out loud, right? Then you can just do it through the chat. And that's an important piece, but also can be a difficult piece. As a presenter in a virtual setting, is to really pay close attention and monitoring that chat, right, and engaging with people through the chat, as well as the people like on on the Zoom, you know, screen, what do I think if you co presenting, you can set it up that way. And maybe we're going to mediators. We're trying to do that to put in some thoughtful questions, but then did not let them go unanswered, even if it's just a quick like, Hey, I hear you been there, you know, or like, even, to try to build some connection. So people can take that and say, anyone wants to continue this conversation, like, afterwards, yeah, yeah, like that. We'll do that as well.

Matt Markin  
Great advice. And I think brie and I, as we're doing these, like we we could chat with everyone for hours and hours and hours, but unfortunately, we reached high with this. I mean, I fly like, I'm just looking and I'm like, Oh, my God, same thing happened with Sarah. I was like, we're chatting, and then I'm like, oh, it's time to end this recording.

Mike Geroux  
I just glanced over and was like, wow, it's almost, well, noon my time.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, Bri and I are still waking up our side over here.

Bri Harvie  
To be fair, though, even if it was new, I would noon, I would still be waking up. I'm always just waking up. It doesn't matter if it's 10am or 3pm.

Mike Geroux  
Well, Bri to that point, I take into the same Good morning, like, to people throughout the entire day. Yeah. And it's funny, because I'm like, you know, two o'clock in the morning, busy summer I haven't seen yet. Say, Matt, good morning. Like, it's two o'clock and I'm like, and now we're engaged in the conversation.

Matt Markin  
This is great. Like, thanks. Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today.

Mike Geroux  
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I always love catching up and, you know, chatting. I really hope to see both of you in person soon. Spend too long?

Matt Markin  
Yes, yes. Well, I guess I'll see you virtually in January, and then hopefully in person in October.

Mike Geroux  
Yeah, that's my goal, to be there in October. So, free, October, hopefully. All right, good. We'll celebrate. Have a wonderful holiday season, you two you also thank you. Keep in touch.