Ep. 10 - Mariela Ramirez - Emerging Voices

Recorded earlier this year, this episode features Mariela Ramirez who was then Undergraduate Program Advisor in Anthropology at UC Santa Cruz and is now at UC Davis. Matt and Bri chat with Mariela about introvert superpowers (and strategic beach walks), surviving the quarter-system sprint, building a high-impact peer advising program, and how counseling “core conditions” can level-up everyday advising conversations. Mariela also shares her research on campus climate for LGBTQ Latinx students, behind-the-scenes of her first NACADA poster, and practical, kind advice for anyone eyeing the Emerging Leaders Program. Tune in for warmth, wisdom, and plenty of “you’ve got this” energy. 

In this episode:

• Quarter-system hustle without burning out
• Peer advisors as student-to-student game changers
• Applying counseling techniques in advising (that actually work)
• Real talk on boundaries, self-care, and calendar blocking
• How to craft a standout ELP application—minus the stress

Hit play, get inspired, and then go do that one brave thing for your students (and yourself) today.

*Emerging Voices is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hello and Hey and welcome back to Emerging Voices, an Emerging Leaders Program Series. My name is Matt Markin from Cal State, San Bernardino, and hosting with me is...

Bri Harvie  
Good morning. I'm Bri Harvie from the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology.

Matt Markin  
Yes, and today, our guest is Mariela Ramirez. Mariela is a dedicated academic advisor with over four years of experience supporting students in navigating the higher education system. She's currently the undergraduate program advisor in the anthropology department at the University of California, Santa Cruz in her role, she is committed to supporting students in reaching their academic career and personal goals. Mariela holds a master's degree in counseling with an option in student affairs and college counseling. Her master's thesis focused on campus climate and how perceptions of safety and inclusion impact the academic success of LGBTQ Latinx students. She also earned two bachelor's degrees, one in psychology and another in Spanish. She recently started presenting in conferences on how counseling techniques can be applied to advising interactions. Mariela has recently become more involved in NACADA. She is currently an emerging leader in the Emerging Leaders Program for the 2024 to 2026 cohort. She's also involved in the LGBTQ advising and advocacy and social justice advising communities. Mariela, welcome. Hi. So good, and it's so good for you to be here. And the first question we're gonna kind of throw out there to everyone, including yourself, is tell us a little bit more about your path or journey. So we kind of heard a little bit from your bio, but if you want to expand on that and tell us about your journey in higher ed?

Mariela Ramirez  
Well, thank you again for having me. So I actually started my journey in higher ed as an orientation leader and as a peer advisor. So I worked two years in those certain roles, and I really enjoyed working with college university students, and so that was something that led to me wanting to apply to graduate school and continue working in an advising capacity. So that was the start. And then for graduate school, I was a counselor intern where I worked in different areas, offices, units. I was working as a counselor intern in the College of Science and Mathematics. And then I was also working with the Learning Center and the Educational Opportunity Program, EOP, and then that sort of just led into an advising capacity after my graduate school.

Bri Harvie  
That sounds awesome. I think it's always really interesting hearing how people ended up in higher education. And I know you said you started as an orientation leader, but Matt and I, as we've been doing these podcasts, have said, like, nobody wakes up when they're six and says, I want to be an academic advisor when I grow up. How, how did you land in orientation? What was your path from, from your undergraduate studies into working in student affairs?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah. So originally I wanted to be a high school counselor, which I think is very similar but very also different. So originally the goal was to go into working in a higher or working in high school, but then once I started working with college students, I realized I liked working more in that capacity, and I think part of me also didn't really have too much of an experience working with high school students, so I just felt like it was a nice transition in terms of finding or leading into my role as an orientation leader. I My sister was an orientation leader, and she really liked it, and I figured that would be a good pathway to working with college students. And then the peer advising position that I wanted did also sort of require to be an orientation leader, in a way. So I felt like that was just the perfect venue for me to just be able to work with college students see if I like it or not. And then that led into really wanting to go into advising.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, so when you said like your sister was an orientation orientation. Leader. And really liked it, did she kind of push it on you, like, Hey, you should be an orientation leader as well?

Mariela Ramirez  
So she's an extrovert. And so I think maybe because she is an extrovert, it was just a really nice role for her to be able to welcome new students, but she really did have a good experience in terms of working with students. She doesn't work in higher ed, but just hearing from her made me realize, you know, I want to become more involved. I want to see what else is out there for me. And I felt like at that time in my undergraduate years, I wasn't as involved as I wanted to, and I just felt like that would be a good stepping stone into being able to connect with others and just work on my resume as well.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, do you feel it kind of helped you get out of your shell a little bit? 

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, yes. Definitely kind of forced you, which I thought was a good experience, in terms of doing presentations, answering questions and everything else.

Bri Harvie  
I would love to talk more about, about that aspect of your, of your shift in your in your development, in your career. I am also an introvert, and I find a lot of people that work in higher education and academic advising are extroverted or just really comfortable introverts. And I know introverts, for the most part, don't really get their energy from those daily interactions with other people. It's more kind of small doses of that with some intentional personal time recharging. As a fellow introvert who does presentations and has conversations with students, how do you find that balance of needing to kind of give emotionally while also recharging yourself and making sure that you're not pouring from an empty cup?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think self care is really important, and being able to take care of myself and having boundaries has really helped, and also having some breaks in between, if I'm able to so I don't have back to back meetings, although sometimes that might not be possible, but I think just finding activities that I can do, whether it's in between something quick or outside of work hours, has really helped. So for me, I really like to listen to music. I actually live very close to the beach, so just going on a walk, hearing the waves, has really helped me stay grounded, and I feel like that helps me be less stressed. And so then that way I'm able to work with students and stay grounded in my appointments or in my advising, meeting with students. So I think it's yes, finding the balance, or knowing myself when I need to maybe take a rest, or if a day has just been very draining because I have maybe had a lot of meetings or a lot of talking, just maybe finding a way where maybe I can recharge. Sometimes it's just watching a movie or something when I get home?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, so I think you're making a lot of people jealous talking about the beach. So other people have to play the sounds of waves and stuff, you know. But you could just like, oh, just go outside and just walk to the beach and I'm good. So kind of, kind of expanding also on this in terms of being an introvert versus extrovert. You know, you're at UC Santa Cruz, so you're on a quarter system, right, correct? Do you feel like it's a lot of peak time? All the time being on a quarter system, where it's like, you start the you start the quarter, you're working with students, then it's time for registration. You're working with students. Then it's end of the term. But also the next term is starting, like a week or two after that. Does it? How do you, I guess, being an introvert, like doing all this in terms of the balance and all that, are you still able to kind of keep up with all of that?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, so the quarter system does go by pretty quickly. And as an undergraduate student, I was also on the quarter system, so I think that did help where I got to experience it as a student, and now I'm also experiencing it as a staff member. So it is pretty it does go by pretty quickly. I feel like usually the beginning of the quarter is very busy and then enrollment registration is also a busy time. But there are some weeks in between where it might not be as busy, but because it is 10 weeks in the quarter, it does go by pretty quickly. And I think you. Those down times are helpful if I need to catch up on projects, or if I'm working on something, or depending on the quarter, we might have something that we're working on. So for example, spring quarter is busy because we're doing end of the year celebration events. We're also thinking ahead in terms of fall, fall quarter. And so it is a busy, busy time. But usually when there's downtime, or like Fridays, I try to dedicate some time to just work on what I need to do for that given quarter. And I think that that has worked well.

Bri Harvie  
That's It's interesting hearing how different institutions are structured. And I mean the whole quarter versus semester thing is just mind blowing to me. And I my previous institution we came from, I came from year round registration. So in the spring, students would register for the whole next year, so we didn't have the same kind of peaks that are constant, as I do even at my the institution I'm currently at, I feel like every six weeks it's either add drop or registration, and you don't really get that time to sit and breathe and recharge and catch up on all the other things that we do when we're not supporting students. Thinking of your NACADA involvement, how do you find time, or how do you set those boundaries for yourself to make sure that you can carve out time for things like niketa in your own professional development when you're in such a busy quarter system?

Mariela Ramirez  
So I use Google Calendar, so I try to block out time within my calendar, so I'll still have availability for students, and then I'll try to block out some time for other meetings or for anything that that I might need to to take care of in terms of projects or administrative tasks within Our department, something that I had heard from other advisors was that on Friday they dedicated time just for projects or for administrative tasks. And so I started trying that myself to see if that would help. And it actually did, because we have peer advisors. So usually I'll have our peer advisors have advising hours on Friday, so then I can focus on projects or if there was something that I just didn't get to during the week, I can go ahead and do that on Friday. So I think having that designated day to just either catch up or get ahead has been very helpful for me, and I'm still available to meet with students if they need to. But usually my peer advisors will help with that aspect as well. And I think the other part of that balance is having peer advisors in the office who can also support students and maybe also meet with students. So that allows me to take care of maybe some staff roles.

Matt Markin  
And I guess maybe let's talk about that, because you're mentioning like that you do advising. You're mentioning that you have other projects, you have peer advisors. So talk to us about like, what what you do as an undergraduate program advisor in the anthropology department. What does that all entail?

Mariela Ramirez  
So within my current role, I advise students in the Anthropology major as well as the anthropology minor. We do have an earth sciences and anthropology combined major. The number of students is small for the combined major, but most of my role is advising, and since I am a department major advisor, I also help and support with any undergraduate related matters that occur within the department. So we do have department awards, which I hope process. I send. Out the award call to students. I then sent that to the awards committee, and then we send that to the financial aid office to get the awards dispersed. So I'm sort of like the liaison person who helps with different constituents for that whole process. I I also major declaration is something that all students go through, which I realized was very different from other institutions that I've worked at. So a lot of the main tasks is working with maybe prospective students, current students, who are interested in the Anthropology major, and seeing if they meet major qualifications to declare. I also coordinate some of our events. So we have a Fall Welcome event at the beginning of each academic year, and then we also have a graduation celebration at the end of the year. And so I help coordinate both of those events, and then we have peer advisors, so I'm also their supervisor, and I work closely with them. So basically, anything that the department needs help with on the undergraduate side, I'm sort of the person that works with our department manager to assist with that.

Bri Harvie  
I would love to hear more about your peer advising program. I think this is such a great way for students to get involved in for more people to learn about the important work that we do. What do the peer advisors in your area do? What are they responsible for what is kind of the meat and potatoes of what their role is?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, so peer advisors do advising, but it will be more grad checks, academic planning, so they do help with students to look at what requirements they've satisfied in which requirements they still need to complete. And we do have an academic plan that peer advisors can help with. We do have an end of the year newsletter that we post on our website at the end of each academic year, and so in the past, peer advisors have taken on that role. So they will look for stories, they'll interview students, They'll edit the final version of the newsletter. So they have completely taken a complete role in the newsletter, but most of what they do is advising, so sharing their student experience, helping students choose classes, look at what requirements they have remaining, and then talk a little bit more about the major declaration process.

Bri Harvie  
That's awesome, and I do you think that it helps students hearing from other students rather than hearing from from somebody that could be seen in that position of authority and an advising role. I know I love to think that I'm still young and hip with the kids, but I know I'm not. So do you think that there's value in having them talk to their to their peers instead of to that position of authority, but still having that position if we need

Mariela Ramirez  
Yes, I think peer advisors are very valuable. I think they were great support to me when I first started working in my current role, since I was not a student from UC Santa Cruz, and then my background is in psychology and Spanish, so it is not an anthropology so I think hearing from their peers about the classes the discipline is very helpful, and I think them being able to share that with students, give students a sense of what they can expect in those classes. So I would say yes, they've been great help, and I really enjoyed working with them as well.

Matt Markin  
We're young at heart, free and and to kind of go along with that. I mean, I thought I was the young and hip one, until, like, one day I was talking with the student, and then I was like, Well, back in my day, and then as the words came out of my mouth, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm not the young one anymore. Nope. Now, being an anthropology department, do you do you think sometimes students or individuals might have misconceptions of what like anthropology is?

Mariela Ramirez  
I think so. I think anthropology is not a major or a discipline that many students might have heard in high school, and so when they come to the university, it's one of the major options. And so I think a lot of our students will learn more about what anthropology is if they take one of our lower division anthropology courses, which are introductory course. Courses, and I think that's usually where they learn more about what anthropology is. But I know for me, I didn't really know what anthropology was when I was in high school. It wasn't until I came to the university that I learned and I actually did take an intro biological anthropology course, and that's where I learned more about it. But I think if it wasn't for that class or just being exposed to it, I don't think I would have learned more about what anthropology is.

Bri Harvie  
This is fascinating, and I know there's a lot of things that university that we just not exposed to at the secondary or elementary, junior high, middle school kind of levels, and it's it's more and more important, in my mind, in my opinion, at least, that we are exposed to more things before we make these big life decisions about what we're going to do for the rest of our lives. Do you find that you have a lot of exploratory students that are in anthropology and end up switching to something else. Or do you have students that started in something else and ended up switching into anthropology? Like, how do you work with those kind of like yourself, students that didn't know what it was, but try it and then like it, or try it and then hate it, and need to switch things around?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah. So we've definitely see more students coming into the major. So with our major, we have so in order for students to declare they have to meet major qualifications. And so our major qualifications usually until completing one of our lower divisions and then being enrolled in the second lower division course. So a lot of times, students might have taken one of the lower division anthropology classes as a GE and then they find interest in anthropology, and so they'll start taking a second lower division or they'll take some upper division coursework. So we do see more students show interest in anthropology or a lot of right now, what I'm seeing is a lot of students are choosing anthropology as a backup major because they're waiting on an appeal, or they might still need to complete one more class for the their first intended major. And so we work with them to create a plan in case their first major doesn't work out, then they can do they can declare anthropology, but with working with those students, if I know that maybe anthropology wasn't their first choice, or if they do have interest in anthropology, but maybe they also have interest in other sub fields, is sharing information about different experiential learning opportunities. So I have met with some students who were interested more in like the sciences, but they are pursuing anthropology instead. But there's many other opportunities that they can do, whether it's like working with a faculty member with research, or maybe finding internships related to that area that they can still engage in without necessarily being a major or having a degree in that so I do, we do see more of those cases in terms of students leaving the major or wanting to explore other majors. We do see a lot of double majors or students adding a minor. And I think the quarter system really helps to allow that to happen, because we they take classes in three different terms, and so I think that helps in terms of being able to double major. And so we do see a lot of students in our program who are doing to two two majors, or they're adding a minor.

Matt Markin  
So it gives a little bit more flexibility being on the quarter system. Or they might be able to just add in that intro class and then see if it's like, oh, this could be something I want to do. And maybe they'll add it as a minor if they have, like, their primary focus in another major, or my double major, or switch those majors. Now, I know Bri and I were also interested in knowing about hearing from your bio, because your master's thesis focused on campus climate and also LGBTQ Latinx students. And we were kind of interested to know a little bit more about kind of how you found yourself doing that as your thesis for your master's program. And are there any key takeaways that you might be able to remember from your research that you could share with us?

Mariela Ramirez  
So when I was doing my my master's program, we could choose between a thesis, a project, or an exam. And so for me, I coming from the UC system. I attended UC Davis as a student, so research has always sort of been a topic in all my undergrad classes. I wanted to do a thesis, and I think part of me also wanted to explore the possibility of going into a PhD program. At that time, when I was in grad school. So I just felt like the thesis was a good fit if I did decide to go to a PhD program or apply to a PhD program. So with that was the main reason why I decided to do the thesis, and in terms of topic, I think most of my undergrad papers were on the LGBTQ+ community, and I always found myself wanting to write my papers related to that, or making it based on the topics, finding ways where I can incorporate that. And I identify as Latina, so I just felt like I wanted to see more of that intersectionality, and so just from previous research that I had read, I thought it would be interesting to look more into campus climate, because that can have an effect on how maybe students might feel included, or how safe they might Feel on campus based on those identities. So that was sort of where the idea came from, just from previous research that I had read and takeaway. So this was about five years ago, so I'll try to remember as much as I can, but I do remember from some of the interviews that I had with students, they did mention that there was times when they did not feel safe on campus. And so we did talk a lot about inclusion of the material. So course, content, and so a lot of times it was shared that the information in class tended to be more focused on like heterosexuality versus looking into like LGBTQ+ population. So that was something that I remember from those interviews

Bri Harvie  
That sounds it's very cool, and it's it's always interesting to hear kind of how our how our identities and our interests and our research can inform our advising practice, being kind of the the first person that a lot of students will interact with, and knowing how your experiences will then impact your interactions with your students. How do you use your role as an advisor and somebody who does identify as Latina and works a lot with the LGBTQ+ community? How do you use that identity to inform things that you see at your institution at large?

Mariela Ramirez  
I think it has definitely helped me connect with students more, at least in the past, when I was working in the predominantly white institution of PWI, being able to, I remember I was able to connect with some students who also identified as Latina, and I think that that really helped a lot. And it just built a relationship, because they were able to share their experiences with me, whereas I felt like it maybe might not have not been as possible, or maybe in the past, they didn't have that connection with the staff advisor, and I know for me, I was also the same way as a student. So I think having those identities, or having that experience with those populations has helped for me to be able to connect with students, and then I do get to hear more about how they're feeling and what might be working well within the institution and what isn't. So that, then I can bring up, if it's something within the department that we can work on, then I know that I can work with our department here, faculty and staff. But if it's something more institutional, maybe I can bring this up to one of our advisor meetings, or see what I can do to help, or maybe, you know, just see if anyone else has heard this from students, and see if this is, you know, something that others have also heard or experienced. And it's not just you know what something that it's only that I have heard from students in my case loop.

Matt Markin  
And I think kind of connected to that too, is like, of some of those interests, you're able to kind of bring those interests and find that in NACADA as well, because you're also part of the or you have some involvement in the LGBTQ advising and advocacy and social justice advising communities. How's that been so far for you in that involvement?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, it's been great, I feel like so I started as an acada member, I think in 2022 but I wasn't really involved until this past maybe year and like half year, I would say, since I started the ELP program, and it has been great being able to connect with other advisors and other institutions, being able to network and just learn from others. I It's been great, and I've been able to get more involved, which I think was one of my goals as well. So it's also good to hear what other advisors are going through, or what other institutions might be like in terms of, you know what's going on in their institution? Since I mostly hear maybe what's going on in mine, or like within California, but it's also good to hear like what's happening, not just nationally, but maybe also like in not just within the US, but also in other areas like Canada or other just basically anywhere internationally, I would say.

Bri Harvie  
And I think that's one of the big advantages ncatta has is that international lens on a lot of what we do. She said, You've been a member since 2022 or so. What led you to apply for the Emerging Leaders Program?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yes, so I was actually a mentee for the region nine mentoring program, and my mentor had brought up the Emerging Leaders Program in one of our conversations, because I had mentioned that I might be interested potentially in the in the future, in the leadership role, or I had maybe thought about it before in the past. And so she had mentioned that the Emerging Leaders Program would be a good opportunity to explore and so that was one of the reasons, or one of the ways I heard about ELP, was through my mentor, and then I realized that it would be a good opportunity. So that's the main reason why I applied, and I wanted to get more involved too.

Matt Markin  
Do you feel so far that you feel the program has helped you in terms of getting more involved and kind of what's your experience been like thus far in this first year in the program?

Mariela Ramirez  
My experience has been great. I have become a little bit more involved with the advising communities, which was something that I hadn't done in the past. I also have been working with my mentor to work on working on a manuscript so that I am hopefully able to submit through to academic advising today. And I think what I really enjoy so far has just been the networking and the people I feel like I'm able to connect with people and other advisors in other institutions, which I didn't really have had the opportunity to do so before, and I think the program has also led to other opportunities as well. And it's always great to have that community. I think if in the future I want to present, or if I maybe don't want to write by myself, I could definitely reach out to people and just work with others. So I think that that has been great, just being able to build a community and network, connect with others.

Bri Harvie  
That's amazing, and it's it's so great hearing from all of the mentees and all of the emerging leaders that we've been talking to throughout this podcast series about all the great things that they've done already, only realistically, eight months or so into the program. So thinking ahead to what you want to do before October 2026 I know you talked about submitting something to 80. You mentioned maybe wanting to present. Is there something in particular you're working on that we can we can all keep an eye out for and look forward to.

Mariela Ramirez  
Yes. So I did submit a poster proposal for the annual conference, and it was accepted. So I was really excited about that. And then my poster session is going to be very much related to what I want to write for my manuscript for academic advising today. So it's about so my graduate program was a counseling with an option in student affairs and college counseling. So within my program, we learned a lot about core conditions, which were some counseling techniques. So my focus in my manuscript and then my poster session is on how those can be applied to advising interactions, or how one might be able to apply those when meeting with the student. 

Matt Markin  
Well, congrats on the poster session. Is this going to be the first NACADA presentation?

Mariela Ramirez  
Yes, the first NACADA presentation. 

Matt Markin  
I guess this means you will be at the Vegas conference in October, so we will, for sure see you there, and have to stop by your poster session now. And I guess, let's say, for those that are hearing this, and they're like, I don't know, I I'm thinking about applying to the Emerging Leaders Program. You know, Bri was asking some questions about, like, the kind of the time management portion of it, in terms of, like, your role and getting everything done. You know, we hear sometimes from individuals that are like, I don't know, like, Should I do it this two year commitment? Is it going to be a lot of work. You know, what's your advice to someone that's considering wanting to apply to the Emerging Leaders Program, when they kind of think about the involvement piece the time portion of it? Any advice you have for someone based off your experience?

Mariela Ramirez  
I would say, if someone is interested, to go for it and apply. I think in terms of time commitment, we do have some meetings, but they're not every week, and so they're spread out, which helps, and we usually know ahead of time, so that way we're able to see our calendars and see if it works with our schedule. So I would say, if someone is interested, to just apply. I think for me, this was something also out of my comfort zone, like, as an introvert, I'm also shy, so I think for me it is, it was a little bit out of my comfort zone. But so far, I've had a good experience. And I think the mentor, the mentors are great. The Emerging Leaders are great. And so that has really helped me feel more at ease, I think, with just my anxiety. So I would say, if someone is interested, that they should just apply. It's a great opportunity just being able to meet other people, other advisors, and then also working on your goals and having that support system with you has been great. And for me, at least when I meet with my mentor, we're able to talk more about my writing right now. It's just more ideas. It's not actual writing yet, but we're getting there. And so just hearing from her experience has been great, just to see what I could do differently, getting some feedback and just having that support, I think, is always great. So yeah, I would say if someone's interested, they should definitely apply.

Bri Harvie  
That's awesome. It's it's always encouraging to hear from other people that maybe find this kind of work and this kind of involvement outside of their comfort zone. Great to hear from people that did it and have been successful doing it as well, just kind of in the final stages of our conversation here. What advice would you have for somebody who is looking to apply as far as things that might help or that helped you kind of form that application and form your form your rationale for wanting to be chosen as a member of the Emerging Leaders Program?

Mariela Ramirez  
So I think for me, when I'm working on something, I have to write things down, and that's the way I'm able to process things. So for one thing I did do is I just grabbed a scratch piece of paper and I looked up the questions, and I just started jotting down bullet points. And I feel like that helped me just process more of why I was applying, or why I was interested in applying, and just answering some of the questions from the application. Another thing that really helped was having someone else look at my answers just to make sure that I was answering the prompt. Because sometimes I think I'm answering the prompt, or I think I'm answering the question, and then maybe I might not be. So I did have my sister look over my answers. And although she does not work in higher education, I was mostly asking for feedback in terms of, do I answer the questions? You know, is there anything maybe that I could add? You know, as as a outsider, like, what do you think? So, I think getting that feedback was really helpful, just to also give me a peace of mind in terms of, like, knowing that I that my application looked well or sounded well to someone who might not be in higher ed. And then I think just really reflecting on my experiences so far, but also maybe what I wanted, what I want to do, in terms of goals, was really helpful, because I think in my mind, I've always had goals, or I've always been like, yeah, I would want to write a. I really like to write, but I haven't done so since grad school. But then being able to maybe write those down and think more well, what is it that I want to accomplish? And then how can this program help me to do that? I think that that was another piece that really helped with the application process.

Matt Markin  
That's awesome advice, especially like the self reflecting part, but I think also just writing things down, because I'm always one of, like, I just want to get it all done, but then I'm like, Well, I got to take a step back. I need to have these ideas first and then kind of structure it. So I think fantastic advice there with applying. But this was a great conversation. We learned a lot about you and great advice and tips that you've given throughout this conversation with brie and I, so thank you so much for joining us today.

Mariela Ramirez  
Yeah, thank you for having me.