Ep. 3 - Kathleen VanDyke - Emerging Voices

In this energizing episode of Emerging Voices, Matt and Bri chat with Dr. Kathleen VanDyke from Texas A&M’s School of Engineering Medicine! From aspiring engineer to passionate advisor, Kathleen shares her unexpected journey into higher ed, the power of empathy and “translational skills,” and what it takes to thrive in a program that fuses medicine with engineering. Tune in for candid stories, career-shaping insights, and real talk on building community, setting boundaries, and leading with heart in the ever-evolving world of academic advising. 

*Emerging Voices is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Well, hello and welcome to emerging voices, a series presented by NACADA-The Global Community for Academic Advising. And Emerging Voices is a series interviewing those within the NACADA's Emerging Leaders Program, which is meant to build a sustainable community of strong NACADA leaders, representative of diversity across the membership. My name is Matt Markin from CSU San Bernardino, and I am with...

Bri Harvie  
I'm Bri Harvie from the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology.

Matt Markin  
Hey and Bri and I get to interview Dr. Kathleen VanDyke. Dr. VanDyke is a distinguished academic advisor and program specialist with extensive experience in higher education, currently serving as a program specialist for at Texas A&M University's School of Engineering Medicine. Kathleen contributes to the development of innovative educational processes and supports engineering faculty through a blended engineering and medicine model. Her expertise includes program management, improving departmental operations, student outcomes, curriculum support and program evaluation with a doctor of education and higher education leadership from Sam Houston State University. Kathleen is well versed in faculty and staff training, retention strategies and student management systems. Her professional strengths include process of improvement, budgeting, evaluation and assessment, instructional design and public speaking. She is committed to fostering student engagement and success through innovative educational programming and effective communication. Kathleen, welcome.

Kathleen VanDyke  
Thank you. Wow, that was a grand introduction, right?

Matt Markin  
We want to make sure we have...

Kathleen VanDyke  
Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me, and we're glad to be here.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, we've learned a little bit about you from what we just read in your bio, but we were hoping you can expand upon that and tell us a little bit more about you and your journey in higher ed. 

Kathleen VanDyke 
So I started off so long story, going back with context, I started off as an engineering major, right? I was one of those students that I wanted to be involved in the discipline, right? That made a lot of money, right? That's what we were told in choosing a study. And so as I walked through my own academic journey as a first time college student within my first gen in my household, had the support, definitely. And so while in undergrad, I had the opportunity to work in academic success. I had a lot of jobs in college, and so at the Prairie View A&M University. I worked for the football team as the equipment manager, but I also had another job. One time when my work study, I didn't have enough money, and so they had student hourly, and so I worked in the Academic Success Center. And so from there, I had the opportunity to work in undergrad, and then also become a graduate student. And so through that experience, I got to understand holistically, right, what academic success was. From there, I became an advisor. And so I while I was in grad school, so while I thought I was going to work in the engineering discipline, where I went to Texas Instruments, had a job interview my passion and my true understanding of helping students walk through a journey to navigate, you know, a very challenging journey, especially when it's scary. What is, what drew me more to passion versus the desire of wanting to make lots of money through an engineering discipline, and so from there, I continued on with my graduate studies and throughout the year. So I became, I was an advisor for 10 years, time and time again, right that countless reward of watching students achieve right milestones and being part of it really became fulfilling for me, so much so I continued on. A lot of my mentors were telling me, You're going to go to you're going to go get your doctorates. I'm like, I am. I didn't know that. I didn't know that this was a thing, right? And so a lot of my mentors and support you know that that community really inspired me to go into my to pursue my doctorates. So after about 10 years of academic advising, I had advised a multiple range of disciplines. And so originally we were kind of a centralized unit, and then we became decentralized. And so that model of advising, we went through it all. And so after I received my doctorates, right? This was through covid, this was through changing chairs. And so that was a very challenging yet exciting and rewarding experience. The opportunity came at Texas A&M within this new program called the School of Engineering medicine. And, and so in this role, right? It wasn't the unique advising perspective, right? So, one, this was a very unique program, in that it is combining two, two dual degree programs, where they have taken medicine and they have taken engineering and put it inside a big old pot, right? An interdisciplinary program. And so I found out that in building this new program, right, my role now is a little bit unique in I get to support students somewhat in advising, but also definitely helping to helping the faculty right with those advising and mentoring skills, and so all of those frameworks, advising frameworks that I learned while being an advisor, while being in NACADA is kind of has what allowed, has allowed me to to provide those skill sets in this area here, where I In this position here within the School of Engineering medicine, which is helping to develop and build those processes. So, long story short, that's how I got into education. I thought I was going to go be this engineering person, right? I was going to go into some type of and I was electrical engineering, right? I was going to go into some type of field where I was going to make a lot of money, but ultimately, connecting with people was what was so fulfilling for me. And now here I am, all these years later, right being able to use that skill set to work with faculty engineering individuals, so I understand the theoretical right language and framework, and I'm able to to be the liaison for students and faculty on that side.

Bri Harvie  
That's awesome. That sounds like a really cool field, too. And what I mean, we talk a lot with our students about passion. You have to call your passion, and passion equals performance. But talk about a a 180 in life plans. You mentioned being a first gen student, what? What do you think that experience in your own life did, as far as impacting the advice that you give your students or how you interact with faculty when you're helping them with those mentorship roles? What insights does that give you?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Yeah, right? So those skill sets allow you to come from a place of empathy, right, sympathy and empathy, right? Because being a first gen student, student, and understanding those challenges right, and navigating through an arena that you know when you're going through it as a first gen right, you are learning a language, and it can be scary, and so that is what helped me to connect to my students, right? And so in my first 10 years of academic advising, that is what allowed me to connect to speak the same language, to provide that empathy and support, right? And that, for them, means the world, right? Because when you are able to connect with students who have no idea, who are feeling the same type of who are experiencing the same type of feelings, and navigating such a dynamic journey, that served as a critical you know, and pivotal point for the success of students, likewise, and coming to a new program with faculty who are introduced to a program who are understanding higher education, right, you're able to be the liaison, you're able to, you know, to translate. I call I tell my team, hey, we're the translators. We're going to get a shirt that says hashtag translators, because we have to use those skill sets, not even only as a first gen right as an academic advisor, but even when we're working with faculty in this arena, where we are we're we're having to translate what is needed, but also be the support that they need to contribute to student success. And so what it does is it allows you to have translational skills, right? A skill set where you're able to, regardless of the audience, you're able to take that message and translate it to where you can identify what they need, right, and meet that need all at the same time.

Matt Markin  
And I think kind of connected to this. For this next question, it's like, you work in kind of this unique space where you have, like, where engineering and medicine intersect. So, like, how does this blended model shape your approach to academic advising and program support?

Kathleen VanDyke  
Oh, yeah, this was in this this experience, right? Is, is I'm learning right, as soon as I got into this program as well, on how to, like, I said, be translational, right? Because, in this situation, this, in this environment, you have two different disciplines, right? You have two different disciplines. And when, when you have. Two different disciplines, right? Just like you have two different students, you have two different faculty personalities, right? You have individuals who are motivated by different interests. You have individuals who are motivated who speak different languages and so that you like. It's a very unique role, and I love and I'm so grateful and thankful to be in this opportunity to experience it, because not only are in my translational right, I am contributing to processes, right? So I'm process building. As a matter of fact, before I started this podcast, I'm working on a faculty guide. Because not only are we training students in building processes, we're training faculty, right? And so my team and I are working on a faculty guide to help. And so with engineers, I'm always like, okay, graphs, tables, right? Workflows, right? This is the language, right, that they're able to speak in. And so just finding that connection, trying to find the best, I guess, platform to get the best language that identifying what that is in this unique and this unique role has been very beneficial. So every role that I've had, whether it's been a traditional advisor for an advisor for a traditional program, right, I was, I was at one point advising first time freshmen and then upperclassmen and now to graduate and professional students, right? Because this program here is a four year program where students will receive an MD and a Masters of Engineering, right? Like, don't ask me how, but within the curriculum, they found ways to put a Master's of Engineering into the slots of where the elective curriculum would be. And so if I kid you not, if I should, when I go to conferences or I do a presentation, I pull up the curriculum model, and I'm like, let me show you the curriculum model, because this is colors, it's blocks, eight weeks, six weeks. You know, we're working on two, six month terms. It's crazy, but again, you know those skill sets of being an advisor allows me to advise students and faculty, right? It's just knowing your audience on how to provide the support that's needed. So very translational, right? And I and I tell the faculty here in this program, right? One of the goals of our program is to have translational research, likewise in advising, right? I'm an interdisciplinary person that has to provide translational advice and support, depending upon the audience.

Bri Harvie  
And it's yeah, and I mean, it's so hard to kind of find that balance between the operational piece and the human side of things and managing the like. I need to get this across to students and faculty, and you both need to understand the same information, but from very different perspectives. And it's, it's a lot, yeah, it's a lot. You mentioned presenting and trying to show at conferences what this curriculum looks like. And from your bio, we know you've presented at numerous conferences over the last several years. What motivates you in your current role to keep engaging with professional development at that level?

Kathleen VanDyke 
It's the drive to always right? I started with the empathy, right? In order to have that connection with groups and populations and individuals, regardless of what their role is, right? It's that drive to want to communicate, right? It's the communal factor for me, right? How can we? Because I'm always saying, you know, teamwork makes dream work, right? Like that is my model, right? Like, how can we we? I know in my heart of hearts, right, that we work. We can do amazing things. We're better together, right? And although it's very cliche, right, that principle is still the same. And so being able to share and present and communicate. So one of my biggest things I'm like, Okay, how do I get engineers to, like, what kind of exercises can we do? Because I know that the more we share, the more we communicate, right, the more we can meet the need. And we can progress. We can we can progress like, progression can happen exponentially right? When we communicate ideas and when we share and when we talk about what you know and not work so much in silos, right? We know within higher education, silos are inevitable, right, not just within institutions we're talking about within the departments, and so that's one of the things that I am very passionate about right? Like we don't want to work in silos, right? How can we build stronger relationships? And so my last two presentations, I just did a presentation at the NACADA region, our NACADA region in March, and then I took that same presentation, went down to our main campus. I. Um, because they had an advisor symposium. And again, it's the same. The principle never changes, right? The principle is always, how can we build better relationships for student success, and what that looks like? And so that's always been the passion. The principle has never changed, because in order to contribute to academic success. In order to contribute to institutional goals, right? You need the building of relationships and communication. It doesn't matter, right? The discipline. It doesn't matter. Because, again, one of the things I always mentioned in my presentation is there are always going to be institutional goals are always going to be departmental goals. How each department and institution achieves those goals may look different, but the principle doesn't change, right? How do we build this to contribute to student success? And so that's what drives me to want to continue to present. I know I took a so I started off presenting poster presentations, going to, I did a presentation, and we went to our our software program is Ellucian. We're a banner school. And so before I before this was before covid. I took a break because of my doctoral studies. Right when the doctoral studies came, I was like, Okay, this is, let me, let me get through this here. But even before that happened, I was going to these conferences to from a, you know, speaking from the perspective of a user, right from the user perspective. I like to speak from different perspectives. I like to be present in environments where, often times, voices that may not get heard depending on what their role is, and that department or the institution, I wanted to make sure that I was sharing the good, the bad, the ugly, right, all of it, and having these authentic conversations to tell individuals, hey, I'm not opposed to any of The goals. If you present me with a goal, I want to have a conversation and be able to communicate to you as a team member, how we're going to meet that goal, or how, or just at least, identifying what those some of those barriers are to achieving that goal. So again, it doesn't matter the audience or it the principle still remains the same, how can we get together be a better team? How can we, you know, create a cohesiveness to achieve that goal for student success, and how can we be great team players in doing it, team members.

Matt Markin  
And I love that, and I love Bri's question and your response to that, and I guess, kind of to build upon that. You know, you have, you've worked with so many other types of individuals, so like faculty, you know, advising students, staff, many institutions. It's, it's like you kind of said, you know, it can be very siloed. So it might be like, well, faculty do this, you know, or we have primary, primary role advisors, or professional advisors that do this. What advice? Practical tips do you have for having more of that collaboration? Who initiates it? What types of collaborations can one have? What's your advice?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Yeah, that's really, really good, right? Because that's the whole focal point, right? How can we collaborate? What does that look like? I'm going to be honest for me, especially when I'm depending on the environment environments, I tell them I'm like, I'm an introvert, right? Like I don't I'm not the one that usually initiates the conversations, like I consider myself, or at least I did, right, the individual that would wait until someone came up to talk to her. And so what I'm realizing is, the more courage I got right over time, the more I found other individuals to either have similar feelings, right? And so a lot of the collaboration talks, hey, how you know, how's your day going, or how are you or where you from? Just simple, small convert, like those, believe it or not, those simple, small things really go a long way, right? You you being able and having the courage to want to just speak out. So I would say, you know, that is at its basic right. And then also, you know, again, understanding that building community is really the key, and when it comes to building those relationships. So for instance, when I came into this program, the College of Medicine, right, they have what's called navigators, which serve in a role as advisors. And so again, we're talking about two different disciplines, and the conversations are not heavy. They're not being held at the level, or, you know, the stage where a lot of, a lot of the individuals with boots on the ground, where we are being the ones that are implementing the day to day logistics, right? Building those relationships started off with me saying, Hey, let me come over to your area, right? Like, let's, let me just come over there. When you guys come over here, let's have lunch, right? Sometimes, if we have the resources, we may be able to provide lunch. But even if that's not the case, build, you know, coming to each other's events, supporting those events, having conversations behind the scenes a whole lot, right? And it's so, it's so, it's so crazy now, because some of the relationships that I've built with a lot of the the navigators in the College of Medicine, they're like, Hey, how's the house buying? Hey, you know. And so when you come from the perspective of community, right? And you initiated right, stepping out of, sometimes, your comfort zone, that's where you can start, right. You really start building those relationships across campuses. Right over time you start building and developing those. Yeah, they start off professionally, but some of them, even, you know, crossover personally, like inviting, you know, invitations to the wedding and graduations and baby showers and things like that. So building relationships is very, very critical. Again, talking to someone who is was considered herself as an introvert, right? People are like, No, you're not. I'm like, No, really, I I, if you don't come and talk to me first, I'm probably not gonna say nothing, right? But those are just some of those skill sets are very, very critical and needed for that goal.

Bri Harvie  
Absolutely. I'm also an introvert, so this really resonated with me, like 100% I'm the person at social functions that just hangs up by the food table and waits for folks to come. So I am i You're preaching to the choir. My friend, on the topic of collaboration in that community building, obviously being part of the Emerging Leaders Program, you're very involved in the community. And when you're when you think about your involvement and what the community might look like as somebody who wants to help shape the next generation of of leadership and advising within the catalog. What do you think, or how do you view your legacy in the field?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Oh, wow. Um, that's a good question. I view it as impactful, right? It's the impact it, which is a fulfilling, you know, it's, it's a, it's a personal fulfillment on the impact that you've had on someone's life, right? So we're all in advising, right? I tell them, like, I, again, you're talking to a person who's like, Oh, I'm going to go do engineering, because I hear they make a lot of money. And I have known, you know, friends and colleagues within engineering field who make a lot of great money, right, gas and oil field, but it's not the fulfillment, right? It at the end of the day, it's what is the what, what fulfills you, right, as a person, and so the lasting legacy would would for me, would be impact, how, how did I impact someone's outlook on contributing to the field of academic advising, right? How did I impact them in their even career choices, right? I tell everybody, a doctor needs a doctor because a doctor gets sick, right? A dentist needs a dentist. I'm like, an advisor needs an advisor. Sometimes and often times within that community, you know, I tell my husband all the time, I'm like, I know how to advise professionally, right? But sometimes I'm the one that needs an advisor, right, especially when I graduated with my doctorates, I came to a point to say, Okay, what is the next step for me? What you know? What is the next level? And it's and it's in those times when you need some you need something impactful, right? You need someone within that field. You need someone that can come and deposit the same advice that you can do professionally. And so I would definitely say a lasting legacy impact for me would be how how impactful was I to someone's career, or how impactful was i into contributing to someone's success? Because that is ultimately what is most fulfilling.

Matt Markin  
And I can hear the passion, you know, in what you're saying. And I wonder if this is also connected to the fact that you were also in, were you also in the graduate and professional school of Texas A&M University, and you're also a mentoring academic fellow?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Yes, yes, I did so when I first got here, and I have the most amazing boss, right? He I got into a position and that and that definitely right throughout the years, because we know sometimes our relationships with the people we report to, sometimes it can make or break us, right? It can turn us off from a field, or it can definitely be that. Strong, foundational support, right? And so I've had some really great bosses when I came into this program. I have it, I had it even crater boss, right? That empowered me, right? So he saw the skill set and wanted to empower me. And so one of the things he encouraged me to do was to, you know, become, you know, go into the we call it the graduate and mentoring fellowship Academy, like, don't give me, don't, don't, don't. The quote, sometimes it's a long name, but basically it's an academy where we complete seven, seven modules, and we it helps us to also understand, but gain the skill sets right to help graduate and professional students. So I tell everyone, I'm like, silly me. When I came from my previous university where I was advising undergraduate students, I was like, Okay, I understand that, especially coming from high school to college, right? They need this certain type of support. The naivety in me coming to this program. It's like, oh, they're they're graduate students, they're graduate and professional students, students. At this point, we know everyone knows how to do school, right? And when you really sit back and look at it, my boss was like, no, they need the same they may need a different type of support, but yet, still, they still need support. And not only that, the faculty needs support. And this is no shade on faculty, because they they are very they're stretched very thin too, right? But the naive to me, that I was so naive. I was like, I I just didn't think that. I just assumed that the support I had provided in one environment that was the only support that was needed, and so I got to be a part of that Academy. Finished all seven modules, and so now I can either facilitate some of those sessions, but again, it's helping graduate and professional students, but it's also helping faculty, you know, with those skill sets as they are, mentoring and advising students as well. So definitely finish that. Academy was a great program, and I encourage anyone who's at an institution that provides those those modules and those skill sets, definitely be a part of it.

Bri Harvie  
That sounds awesome. And I love the idea that kind of continuous growth, and especially when, like, I know, when I went back to grad school, I was like, I have to completely relearn how to how to school. How do I school again? So thinking about just kind of wrapping all of what we've talked about so far and putting in a nice little basket, how or what, I think, what is the better way to put this, what are you bringing to ELP? From this basket of your of your expertise, so you changed your mind on your career path. You went from wanting to be the engineer rolling in dollars, to connecting with people and working in academic advising. You are now working with faculty as well, and you're in this mentorship. What are you bringing to ELP? And what do you want to get out of ELP? 

Kathleen VanDyke   
So, bringing to ELP, it's a contribution to a community and understanding your why, right. And ELP, likewise, reminded me of that right. It has a strong foundation of the why, part of becoming a leader, right? And developing. And so everything I'm so passionate about, one, bringing that Outlook to ELP, to a, you know, a we're all very diverse in our in our way of thinking, right? And so being able to connect, bringing that diversity of thought, right is what I bring to to ELP, but likewise ELP it right. It's a reciprocation. This is a relationship where we are reciprocating right, what we're bringing and what we're getting. And so likewise, ELP also brings me that diversity of thought and perceptions from other with from other individuals within the field. And so being in, you know, ELP, especially at the the last, the last annual conference in Pittsburgh, I just was so excited to be around the group, right? At first is a little nervous, um, but again, it's the the community, right? It's the community aspect of individuals who were in the same field, but we all have different unique skill sets, talents and gifts and always and also sharing, right? And so, like I said, prior to doing this podcast last week, I was meeting with Cami and Alison. We're going to do a presentation, by the way. We're like, well, let's do it like, let's I'm ready to go. Like, we can shoot the gun right now, ladies, we were going to present it for the one in Vegas, right? But we decided to go ahead and do it next year. And then again, you know, just having that conversation with Cam, she's like, Oh yeah, I did the podcast. Let me tell you. And. So it's that support, right? Because I think had I not spoken to her about it, right, I would have had the jitterbugs. And so I'm always from the mindset of, you can always learn from someone right? For me, I'm like, I can learn from a toddler. Really, I can, right, if my heart is open enough to receive it, right? I have developed this. I want to be an ongoing learner. I want to be, you know, God willing. I want to be 90, still learning from different individuals. And so I think that is what ELP offers me. It offers me the ongoing pursuit of learning, and I never want to stop learning, right? It's always been one of the goals in my life is to never stop learning, never to be one of those individuals to get stuck in their ways. Because we know some of the older generation is like, you can't you're not. This is what they've been doing for the past 30 years. This is what they know. And so I never want to get into that mindset, right? I always want to continue to learn and grow and be able to be exposed to different personalities and perceptions and skill sets to help me grow as a person. Because, again, it's just a reciprocal relationship, and so being able to offer that perception right is what I can bring, and what I brought to my cohort, right? This is I'm like, This is what I do. I'm in a bear, in a different, unique position, and just kind of being able to provide that support as a starting point for some people. Because sometimes you'll have a conversation with other advisors, and they're like, I never thought of that, or I never even thought to start there. I'm like, Hey, I started from where sometimes we don't have the resources. And that's not, you know, I didn't there are other there are ways around things. And so often times when you get within a group or a community of people, that's sometimes the best resource, believe it or not. 

Matt Markin  
It's like, the opportunities are there, the opportunities to learn from anybody, like you can learn almost anything, just having a conversation. You can always pick up something. And I love that you talk about that, and talk about it being reciprocal, and building this community, you know, talking about more about emerging leaders. You know, you're finishing up your first year, going to start the second year in the program. What have been some of the specific goals that that you had for yourself for this first year? And are you kind of already thinking about what year two goals might look like?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Yeah, so presenting, getting back into the the dynamic of presenting, like I said, I presented at the region conference. I did, I did. I did volunteer. I ran for a position regionally. I didn't get it sad, but I remember. I remember right, the encouragement and the support of individuals at annual saying, Hey, if you run and you don't win, do it again. And I'm like, you know, okay, so this is like, not, no one is painting a picture to say, Hey, you're not going to lose it's Hey, no, don't give up, right? Like, and it's okay, like, don't internalize that. And so I'm going to, I'm going to run again once an opportunity presents itself as a goal, because I really, definitely want to continue to to to meet and learn from other individuals, but definitely hold a position regionally. I was also talking to Alison and Cami last week. I kind of want to, I think there are, well, so let me back up. So I was a part of the community, that NACADA community, the graduate and professional student community, because I know they're going away, I got to serve as a mentor. So while I was being mentored right through the ELP program, I was also being a mentor, and then in an advising community going on in the future, I'm still trying to get I really want to publish right, like I want to maybe start off on one of the smaller journals I think I seen today, where it's, I still have, you know, the doctoral research writing still gives me anxiety, so I kind of want to start off with something small, but at least being that voice, right, and just describing how some of the encounters that I've had within the Graduate and Professional arena, right, right? What that looks like. So definitely want to publish, but I'm going to try again for some regional positions once they become available.

Bri Harvie  
That's awesome, and I am sorry that the position didn't work out this last time, but I love to hear that you're already like, just get up and brush it off and try again next time. I think that's such an important, an important skill to have, both as a student and as a professional, to be able to learn from setbacks and then move forward when, when the time is right, thinking about kind of next steps for ELP outside. Light of ELP, what's next? What's next for Kathleen? What's next in your professional life? Are there any interests or initiatives that you're excited coming down the pipes?

Kathleen VanDyke 
Yeah, well, and really quickly, I did want to say going back to ELP, I hopefully I can serve as a mentor, right? For new for you know the new ELP cohorts in the future, right? Definitely want to be able to share my experience and reciting some of the same experiences that former ELP people had, right? And so definitely want to consider that. But as far as initiatives so next, at least within our program, we're going through a curriculum redesign. Again, we're about to graduate our third class. So again, very, very new, but definitely continuing to move into more leadership roles right to contribute to those, those program development processes operationally. And so we've been having a lot of discussion with my boss and some of the leaders, because one of the things I did, I was able to contribute to in this new program, was the building of a process. And so I got together with some of our IT, platforms that we use, we use something called Laserfiche, and actually building a whole entire process from scratch. And so we just rolled that process out to faculty and students. Hence why I'm working on a faculty guide to train faculty, but continuing to operationally right. Find ways oftentimes I do. I tell my boss, I'm like, I do miss the day to day interactions from students, and so I've created other ways to still have that student engagement right. I'll go down to our our Innovation Center, where they're working on their innovation projects, just to see what they're working on, right? To hear about it, make sure that I'm going to some of their presentations. And so in this unique role, it's a little different, but still making sure that I'm engaged with that, with the students. Again, we're in a lockstep program, so students don't get to decide what they want to take. This is every single semester, every term, let me say they know what they're taking, and so I don't. And as we're growing, right, we're adding, we just added a new team member to our team, and so she's taken over some of those duties, and I'm going more into building up more processes, assessments, right? Like making sure that those are well taken care of, and so even though I might be transitioning to a different role, I still find ways to engage directly with students, so I can still have that student touch feel, because I really the passion for student success, right? Is what is fulfilling. And so oftentimes I know when we move into different roles, leadership roles, or processes and assessments, that that piece is not, is not as often as it used to be, but I still find ways to do it. So those are some of the things that we're I'm going to be working on within the next year, again, as we go through our curriculum redesign in our program, and just contributing to and building up certain, certain branches. Again, we're very, fairly new. We're just getting started. We we've we're adding more leadership to the team as well, too, overall for our program. And so there are a lot of great opportunities that our program is about to experience.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, a lot of work, a lot of priorities happening, but it'll all be worth it in the end. How do you find the time to kind of balance everything, like with your role, the change, the curriculum changes, or curriculum redesign, all the new things coming up at your institution and your department, but also your professional development, and everything you're doing, not only at your institution, but also through NACADA?

Kathleen VanDyke  
It's a good it's a great conversation, because I just had this conversation with my boss, and so one identifying, I tell everyone, you have to identify boundaries, right? And so, because it can be overwhelming, you can begin to take on tasks and projects that are not necessarily right. You're not, you're that's not really, you know. So creating those boundaries are essential, right? You have to create those boundaries, because you can either burn yourself out by doing too much and not balancing, and so being able to create boundaries, one being able to rely on your team members, that's critical, right? That's the whole principle of building relationship. Because one, you gotta build trust with the people that you are on a team with, and so building that cohesiveness of trust and support with your team definitely helps so that you don't, you don't you don't burn yourself out with trying to do everything that you're required to do in addition to doing some of those, those things like professional development to help, you know, build you build certain skill sets and so, you know, creating those boundaries, relying on establishing those those relationships, and then relying on your team members, I think are three essential things that Help me to balance everything and not go crazy, right? And I tell everybody, I'm like, All right, after five i You can text me, or you can teach me. And it's funny, because faculty members, they will, they're like, Oh, I just shoot that idea. And so I changed you, but you were not required to answer it at any point. And I'm like, hey, I'll be your notepad. It's okay, because the next day, right, when I look, when I open up my team's chat to see some of the brainstorming ideas or the conversations, or in that moment, then that's when I'll address it. So establishing, right, those clear lines and those boundaries, one you need it as an individual, right? Again, I can't stress that enough to individuals. I'm like, you don't want to burn yourself out by taking on too much and then taking on something that you were never right required to take on anyways, because that's how overwhelming. Because at one point I actually had that, I was like, Okay, I'm I'm developing processes, but I started to, like, scope creep and and and be fixated on processes that I'm like, wait a minute. Let's let me. Let me pull back a little bit, right that there are individuals, there are other teams here, and so there's we can collaborate. We can collaborate all day. And I definitely want to assist people in any way that they need help, but also while maintaining that balance right, and creating those boundaries are critical, because if not, you can't be the full you know self that you can't contribute in the full capacity that that program or the institution needs you. When you don't create those boundaries and when you don't rely on your team, right? And so it's very critical to do that so that you don't outstretch or out burn anything or yourself.

Bri Harvie  
That's such, such great advice, and I think I mean thinking about people that get into our profession. I've said it before, and I will say it many more times before I retire, nobody gets into what we do for the money, right? We get into this because we're passionate about the work and we're passionate about student success. And I think typically, if I'm going to over generalize, the people that get into that kind of work are empathetic people. They're people that want to say, yes, they're we're helpers, right? So it's, it's a really hard skill to learn to set those lines, and I love that your comment about scope creep, and sometimes in an effort to try to help, sometimes we can kind of push that boundary into work that isn't necessarily, or shouldn't necessarily be our work, just in an out of wanting to help a student or a program or what have you. What advice would you have for people who, either, on the one hand, maybe have trouble setting those boundaries for themselves because they want to help or are not necessarily in a supportive environment where those boundaries are respected? 

Kathleen VanDyke 
Oh, that's a good one, right? Where do you start? I encourage individuals right to start with a conversation right. Communication goes a long way right, and establishing that so it's kind of like in order to identify a solution, and this is the way. And you can tell I'm in meetings all day with faculty, engineering faculty, right? I'm like, Alright, in order to provide a solution, we have to start from the beginning, right? We have to start at step one in identifying. In that identification, who am I talking to? Who am I communicating to, to let them know this is what I need to fulfill, right? Whatever duties I'm required to, one of the, one of the statements I made in my presentation last week, I'm like, you know, when I have goals that are setting for me, right from either department or for that come down from the institution or just higher education, right? What those goals are, I then go into looking at, Okay, do I have everything I need to meet that goal? And if I don't, how do I communicate that to the one that gave me the who kind of casted the vision or established. That goal, right? Because oftentimes they're departmental, institutional or state goals, right? And so my question is, then, once I identify, you know, I'll go into identifying, do I have everything I need to meet that goal? Have I've been, have I been provided with everything? And so I think it starts with identification, but it starts with a conversation and communication. And so being able to articulate that, and I know sometimes we get overwhelmed, right? And our I told, I told the in my presentation, I was like, I was advising at least almost 800 students at one point, right? And so it then, it then became an assembly line type of feeling right, and how do I articulate right? Those feelings while also because also wanted, wanting to remain compassionate and wanting to remain steadfast to student success, I just wasn't set up in the proper environment, and so I had the courage to have certain conversations with my then, you know, direct supervisor, to say, Hey, this is this is the challenge, and this is what I'm experiencing, and having the courage to have that conversation right to say, to say, at least, Hey, I've had this conversation week. I communicated right what some of those things that are showing up. Maybe it's barriers, right? Because, again, I tell everybody, if you want me to make you steak, I can make you steak, but you can't give me pancake mix to make you steak, right? Like you we come on now, like I don't have anything against steak, right? I might not even eat the steak, but if you're asking me to make you something, you don't give me the proper ingredients to do that, I need to be able to communicate that to you. So I need to have an environment or or build a relationship to where I can say, hey, this is why I can't make you steak, right? But let's look at some other ways, right, or some other things that I can make you to meet that goal. And so having a conversation is really in its essential, basic form, is really helpful. And I would encourage anyone to start there.

Bri Harvie  
I think that needs to be your next t shirt. You can't make steak at a pancake mix. Is the quote of the day. I love this so much.

Matt Markin  
Let's trademark it. We'll put it on everything. Oh, Kathleen, this was fantastic. Great conversation. A lot of great tips, nuggets of information that you provided. Thank you so much for joining brie and I today.

Kathleen VanDyke 
Oh yeah, no, thank you guys for having me. I've definitely enjoyed it when you reached out to me, I was super excited, so definitely wanted to come on here and share and engage and learn, and so I just thank you all for for providing me with this opportunity to share and engage. So thank you. 

Matt Markin  
I appreciate it. 

Bri Harvie  
Thank you. It's been great.